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Blockade Runner High Slots
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Mr Hyde113
#1 - 2013-03-19 18:50:55 UTC
The Black-Ops changes in the last patch were awesome.

I just want to give a friendly reminder to CCP to address the issue of blockade runner high slots (hopefully in time for the summer update).

Currently, the Minmatar Prowler is the only blockade runner with 2 high slots, allowing it the option of fitting a covops cloak AND a covert cyno. Blockade runners are excellent additions to blackops fleets and I think the other three races' BRs should be given the same level of utility as the Prowler.

To compensate, the cargo/slot layout of the Prowler, should be buffed slightly so it still remains a viable choice.


Current Cargo m3 (All Expanded Cargohold IIs + Cargo Rigs) (Highs - Mids - Lows) [Copied from the item database]

Amarr's Prorator 10922 (1-2-4)

Caldari's Crane 9406 (1-4-2)

Gallente's Viator 10279 (1-3-3)

Minmatar's Prowler 8734 (2-3-2)



TLDR: Give all BRs 2 Highs like the Prowler. Buff Prowler to compensate.


-Hyde
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-03-19 18:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DataRunner Attor
As a blockade runner pilot, I find them just fine as is. I don't support this idea in the slightest.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-03-19 19:03:02 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
The Black-Ops changes in the last patch were awesome.

I just want to give a friendly reminder to CCP to address the issue of blockade runner high slots (hopefully in time for the summer update).

Currently, the Minmatar Prowler is the only blockade runner with 2 high slots, allowing it the option of fitting a covops cloak AND a covert cyno. Blockade runners are excellent additions to blackops fleets and I think the other three races' BRs should be given the same level of utility as the Prowler.

To compensate, the cargo/slot layout of the Prowler, should be buffed slightly so it still remains a viable choice.


Current Cargo m3 (All Expanded Cargohold IIs + Cargo Rigs) (Highs - Mids - Lows) [Copied from the item database]

Amarr's Prorator 10922 (1-2-4)

Caldari's Crane 9406 (1-4-2)

Gallente's Viator 10279 (1-3-3)

Minmatar's Prowler 8734 (2-3-2)



TLDR: Give all BRs 2 Highs like the Prowler. Buff Prowler to compensate.


-Hyde


Prorator with all cargohold IIs is a dead Prorator. Crane needs help, rest are fine. And no, they don't all need 2 highs, ships are different.
Mr Hyde113
#4 - 2013-03-19 19:09:28 UTC
I don't think either of you understand the point of my proposal. My suggestions are to complete the role of blockade runners as support/refueling ships for Black-Ops fleets.

The most recent changes gave blockade runners the ability to fit covert cynos, but this change's potential is severley dimished as only the Prowler can fit one without sacrificing its cloak.

The numbers I provided are to give some context as to the maximum potential cargo space, and have nothing to do with the survivability of the ship.

-Hyde
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2013-04-24 01:13:41 UTC
I agree, its pretty silly to give a ship bonuses that can't effectively be used.. I was hoping the summer update would look into fixing\aligning this.. but it seems its not that important to need fixing
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-04-24 01:57:25 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
I don't think either of you understand the point of my proposal. My suggestions are to complete the role of blockade runners as support/refueling ships for Black-Ops fleets.

The most recent changes gave blockade runners the ability to fit covert cynos, but this change's potential is severley dimished as only the Prowler can fit one without sacrificing its cloak.

The numbers I provided are to give some context as to the maximum potential cargo space, and have nothing to do with the survivability of the ship.

-Hyde



cept, thats not the role of a blockade runner. Let me define something for you.

Blockade: An act of sealing off a place to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving.

Blockade runner: a ship that runs through or around a naval blockade.

In this case we can simple look at a blockade as a gate camp.

They are not only a support/refueling ship for blops. Despite what you think, it called racial diversity. In the case of this, each different race of blockade runners provide their own little uses and functions. Prowler is more for blops I grant you, the ability to fit two high slot items are invaluable for a blops. However, The amarr's blockade runner provides the biggest cargo holds, which can use for internal matters of transporting super quickly without having to worry about using a JF and wasting money on fuel.

My prowler for exampe I sometimes use for ninjaing into other people systems and salvaging stuff that I want. As an example! Blockade runners fit more roles then the one you defined for them.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2013-04-24 02:19:32 UTC
Kind of think all the cloaky blockade runners should get 2 highslots (coming from a prowler pilot) and don't even think the prowler needs a buff really in compensation - maybe a very slight buff to its agility as it should be the most agile by more than 0.1 of a second IMO.

What about the active tanking bonus? long past time IMO that was changed to something else even if its just a HP bonus.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-04-24 08:33:15 UTC
Prowler bonus:
Either give it another low slot or give it some agility to put it ahead of the crane. Caldari should not align as fast as Minmatar EVER.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Thelonious Blake
Miles Research and Development
#9 - 2013-04-24 08:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Thelonious Blake
I'd like to see increased agility and/or third high slot on the Prowler for compensation - cloak, cov cyno and probes.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I support OPs idea.
Gecko Hareka
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#10 - 2013-04-24 09:41:10 UTC

I also think it's a good idea. I added it to my list on possible hauler/runner changes. By rebalancing blockade runners one would get a better "battle transport" for supply behind enemy lines :)

Haulers and Hauling - Rebalancing ships that don't shoot - or do so badly:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2923019
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-04-24 12:14:46 UTC
+1 to that, we'd love some spare cynos no matter the truck.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-04-24 13:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
If I'm not mistaken, CCP specially mentioned this concern in the Dev Blog announcing the changes to the BR class, and said that the slot layouts would be addressed when the T2 ships were rebalanced.

For now, I am simply enjoying the fact that I trained for the Prowler years ago. :smug:

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#13 - 2013-04-24 14:46:09 UTC
There's two ways to approach it, and I'm never settled on which is better. Give each race something unique that they are better at (gallentte has far more hold, caldari can warp while cloaked and better sensor strength, Amarr has better armor and resists, etc). For this to work, though, the benefits have to stand out and be seen.

Or, put each race on a more level playing field and give each the same abilities, basically balancing the whole class (blockade runners) against other classes, not the individuals ships against each other.

Again, I kinda like the first route, but it means that if you need it to do a certain job well, you often have to cross train. And nothing's worse then realizing the ship you CAN fly sucks for everything you specifically need it to do.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#14 - 2013-04-24 15:03:30 UTC
Ruze wrote:
There's two ways to approach it, and I'm never settled on which is better. Give each race something unique that they are better at (gallentte has far more hold, caldari can warp while cloaked and better sensor strength, Amarr has better armor and resists, etc). For this to work, though, the benefits have to stand out and be seen.

Or, put each race on a more level playing field and give each the same abilities, basically balancing the whole class (blockade runners) against other classes, not the individuals ships against each other.

Again, I kinda like the first route, but it means that if you need it to do a certain job well, you often have to cross train. And nothing's worse then realizing the ship you CAN fly sucks for everything you specifically need it to do.


Yeah definitely wouldn't want them all being the same flavor - all races should have one that can warp cloaked tho.

Amarr one should get a big armor HP per level bonus instead of the the repair time bonus so it doesn't need to fit plates which defeats the purpose on a blockade runner and generally be tanky enough it can survive a single nado alpha strike with ease. Gal should get the biggest cargo capabilities but be fairly middle of the road in other stats. Min smallest cargo capabilities, not huge tank but far more agile than the others. Cal one would probably end up something like a shield tanked version of the amarr one tho.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#15 - 2013-04-24 17:02:30 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
I don't think either of you understand the point of my proposal. My suggestions are to complete the role of blockade runners as support/refueling ships for Black-Ops fleets.

The most recent changes gave blockade runners the ability to fit covert cynos, but this change's potential is severley dimished as only the Prowler can fit one without sacrificing its cloak.

The numbers I provided are to give some context as to the maximum potential cargo space, and have nothing to do with the survivability of the ship.

-Hyde



cept, thats not the role of a blockade runner. Let me define something for you.

Blockade: An act of sealing off a place to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving.

Blockade runner: a ship that runs through or around a naval blockade.

In this case we can simple look at a blockade as a gate camp.

They are not only a support/refueling ship for blops. Despite what you think, it called racial diversity. In the case of this, each different race of blockade runners provide their own little uses and functions. Prowler is more for blops I grant you, the ability to fit two high slot items are invaluable for a blops. However, The amarr's blockade runner provides the biggest cargo holds, which can use for internal matters of transporting super quickly without having to worry about using a JF and wasting money on fuel.

My prowler for example I sometimes use for ninjaing into other people systems and salvaging stuff that I want. As an example! Blockade runners fit more roles then the one you defined for them.

WOW,
Do you realize how much you just contradicted yourself?

In the first part of your post you pigeon hole blockade runners into the blockade runner role.

At the end of your post you say they can fill many roles.

Well which is it you support? pigeon holing it into the blockade runner role, or having multiple roles. These are contradictory ideas.

In the middle part of your post you describe a different role it can fill, although how do you ninja salvage if you need your covert ops cloak to get into the system in the first place? No room left for a salvager, unless you are flying a prowler with two high slots. this role supports the idea that all blockade runners should have two high slots.

You say blockage runners do not need the extra high slot as it is not needed for the role of "Blockade Running"

Yet you describe a role that does require two high slots.

Yes blockade running is a different role than running supply/cyno for a black ops fleet, or ninja salvaging.

But to perform in black ops fleets as an additional role, and use the covert ops cyno in that fleet, they need two high slots. This is not the primary role for these ships but is a role they should serve. If not why add the covert ops cyno ability to them. A claoky fleet does no good if the accompanying supply ship is not cloaked.

Look at the last line in your own post. "Blockade runners fit more roles then the one you defined for them. " Yet it is YOU who say they do not need this extra high slot as it is not needed for the pigeon holed role of blockade running.

News flash. You do not need a cyno to "blockade Run" either, yet CCP just added covert ops cyno's to blockade runners. Perhaps CCP also feels they have a role outside of blockade running.

The point Mr Hyde was making was that there are more roles a blockade runner can fill besides "Blockade Running" Even though you deny this at the beginning of you post, the latter half seems to support it.

-It can be used as you say for ninja salvaging, Best fit for this would be a cov-ops cloak and a salvager would it not? Two high slots needed for that.

- It can be used for fleet support in black-ops fleets. If you want to use the newly added ability to use a covert ops cyno the only blockade runner that can do so without giving up its cloak is the prowler. To really fit the role of covert ops cynoing/fuel hauling, black-ops support you need two high slots.No hard points, but two utility highs.

The only role a Blockade Runner with one high slot can fill without being gimped is the Blockade Runner role. Ninja salvaging, Cyno/fuel hauler, and many other roles would greatly benefit from still being able to use a cloak while performing a role that requires a specific high slot module.