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Questions on C4s
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Darker Stranger
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-04-22 22:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Darker Stranger
All of the C4 hatred aside (get a C3 or a C5, yes I've heard it), what are the best ways to run sites in a C4 aside from using RR Tengus? I'd like to understand what it takes to run them with an armor fleet: EHP, Shiptypes, Resists, Active/RR/Logi, everything. I've tried to do a lot of research, but most of what I've found is very, very old.

Can anyone possibly help with this side of Eve?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-04-22 22:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
you should build 5 phoenix dreads (yeah you need 5) any use those.
Don't siege them, put a capital shield transfer in that last high for spider tank.

EDIT: sorry you mentioned armour fleet so in that case armour tank the phoenixes and put a remote armour rep in the last high, not a shield transfer.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#3 - 2013-04-22 22:36:43 UTC
Spider tanking battleships work fine.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#4 - 2013-04-22 22:59:02 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Spider tanking battleships work fine.


how would those battleship look? I could not be able to find any valud BS fleet setup. (smaller tahn 6 members or so.)
Slaveofjita
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-04-22 23:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaveofjita
should only need 4ish(maybe 3?) for most of the c4 stuff, doubt you can do the magno/radars with only 4-3 bs though.

2invuln,1em,1therm hardeners,1large shield extender,1damage control. should have enough resists/buffer, then fit 1 large or 2 medium deadspace shield transporters. some power relays and capacitor control rigs and you should be set.

you can probably find some funny faction/maurader battlesship(with logi maybe) combos as well.

just saw you are asking for armor ones. i don't have any experience with running armor for c4s but 70reists in everything and a bit of buffer and 1large or 2 deadspace remote repairs should work as well as shield.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#6 - 2013-04-22 23:51:58 UTC
Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious.

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2013-04-23 00:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
I know a few people run them with a vargur/basi pair.

Garresh wrote:
Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious.


Its mostly due to them often having poor chains for PVP or logistics use and that as a gross generalisation most people are better off either running C3s or C5s a few exceptions aside.

EDIT: I guess for armor setups then guardian and kronos or paladin are possible choices - never done C4s myself without ~4 people in RR battleships tho (and that was a long time ago).
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#8 - 2013-04-23 00:49:32 UTC
Rroff wrote:
I know a few people run them with a vargur/basi pair.

Garresh wrote:
Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious.


Its mostly due to them often having poor chains for PVP or logistics use and that as a gross generalisation most people are better off either running C3s or C5s a few exceptions aside.



...So it's the lowsec of w-space. Sounds like home to me.

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Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-04-23 01:11:48 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Seriously though, why is there so much hate on C4? I've never been in one long enough, but I'm just curious.

The reason is that to run PVE in C4s you need exactly the same kinds of fleet setups as for running C5 sites (not talking about caps) and youre making far less ISK. even if you theoretically want to run C4 sites for isk, you want a c4 static, not to live in one.
For PVP C4s have horrible chains, annoying to collapse statics due to no caps and no chance of direct kspace connections for null/ls roams.

in summary, there's no point living in one for PVE and the PVP options from one are the worst anywhere in WHs.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Van Ketris
Elusive Dilemma
#10 - 2013-04-23 02:20:04 UTC
You can run c4's with an RR tengu/legion with boosts, or a hybrid, local rep with RR duo. You basically need RR to combat the neuts, around 600-800 dps to not give them enough time to start neuting one ship while shooting another. They need to be able to hit as far as you can, up to about 80k. 40-60k is ideal. The dps tanked number is about 1200-1400, but of course this is based on you also having an AB/cruiser hull and a way to combat neuts, such as RR from a different ship. They start out neuting and dps'ing the same ship 95% of the time, so you can kill them before they start rotating.

These are the numbers and stats I would have wanted to hear when I had this same question myself. With these stats you can do the ANOMS, not radar/mag. Radar/mag are when it gets more crazy, and are what most people are referencing. But you still make more overall isk grinding c4 anoms, such as barracks, than you would in c3. And you can do it with 1-2 ships and a booster.

I ran them with 600mil isk tengu's...you can pimp out a tengu to solo, but that's not necessary for me.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#11 - 2013-04-23 02:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Britta Nolen
c4 armor or shield can be run with 2 domis & logi. the mag/radar site with 4 safeguards needs 2 logi though. 70% resists and 60k ehp is decent enough. know the triggers or die in flames

edit: getting stuff in and out is a pita. currently running a c4>c4>c5>c5>c1>kspace fun times. so, because of that, seems like no one who actually lives in a c4 pvp's. all pvp i've seen are from the c2's that static into c4.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#12 - 2013-04-23 07:10:03 UTC
Wow...c4 really does sound like lowsec. Jesus Christ that's empty...

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Rex Aparte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-04-23 13:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rex Aparte
You can run anything in a C4 with 2 pimped Rattlesnakes, and 3 mildly pimped snakes make it a breeze. Protip: Use 3 deadspace medium RR's instead of two large meta. Protip 2: Get one with a C1-3 static and enjoy the pvp stuffs/ease of k-space connections also. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but C4's are hiddens gems for smaller corps.

Edit: I mean yes, C4's are terrible don't live in one...

Edit2: The snakes are shield tanked, sorry didn't see the armor tanked part.

[Rattlesnake, PvE]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5

probe is for watching for new sigs, pimp to taste - you should be able to figure out what gets pimped. Reps dependent on pimpage, dps dependent on drone skills. The medium's are a must though, more repping power plus more options to run 1, 2, or 3 reps for cap, or split reps more, uh, better.
Lenier Chenal
Offensive Upholder
#14 - 2013-04-23 14:29:36 UTC
Rex Aparte wrote:


Shitfit




This is terrible. Don't do it this way.

[Rattlesnake, Correct C4]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gistum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II


Hobgoblin II x10
Warrior II x6
Vespa EC-600 x5
Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5


Use 2-3 of these instead.
Rex Aparte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-04-23 14:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rex Aparte
Lenier Chenal wrote:
Rex Aparte wrote:


Shitfit




Worse shitfit.


Not even close to enough rep for 2 snakes, and I have my doubts about your cap life. Oh wait, you don't have any. I would be mildly surprised if you run noms with 2 of those without crapping your pants continuously. And forget about the tough sites. You do have nice drone range, but way more than is necessary. You HAVE to run 3 of those snakes, which cost 50m more than our fit, so about 750m more isk on the field. With no probes. I'll stick with our fit.

Edit: also if you're running with two people and neither of you have a probe out, have fun getting ganked by 20 t3's from a C5.
Tashima
Clandestine Services
#16 - 2013-04-23 15:07:05 UTC
You do need a probe, but generating cap via bounce is superior to trying to get it cap stable by itself. Wasting 4 slots and all of the rigs for this alone is bad. You have high-slots, use them.

I say go with the second fit posted.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#17 - 2013-04-23 15:10:48 UTC
even with a probe out, they would have to constantly scan every 10 seconds with a ridicolously expensive fit like that. how many c4 sites do you have to run to pay for that?
Rex Aparte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-04-23 15:11:36 UTC
Tashima wrote:
You do need a probe, but generating cap via bounce is superior to trying to get it cap stable by itself. Wasting 4 slots and all of the rigs for this alone is bad. You have high-slots, use them.

I say go with the second fit posted.



Still doesn't rep enough. But whatever, I'm not gonna sit and argue about, fit works fine for us, people can use whatever they wanna use.
Rex Aparte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-04-23 15:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rex Aparte
Britta Nolen wrote:
even with a probe out, they would have to constantly scan every 10 seconds with a ridicolously expensive fit like that. how many c4 sites do you have to run to pay for that?


What's ridiculously expensive? The medium reps were 25m apiece, so 3/4 of one nom.

Also, are you insinuating you wouldn't be scanning if you had a less expensive fit? This I don't understand.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#20 - 2013-04-23 15:16:00 UTC
double rattlesnakes with faction & deadspace mods.
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