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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Gallente Talos

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Machti Nutako
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2011-10-30 08:18:49 UTC
What are the new raven and such skins? Everyone I know has been talking about them, and i really want to know, but i can't seem to find them anywhere on the forums
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#222 - 2011-10-30 08:28:17 UTC
Machti Nutako wrote:
What are the new raven and such skins? Everyone I know has been talking about them, and i really want to know, but i can't seem to find them anywhere on the forums






The new skins/models have not been revealed yet, just a hint that it's

coming in the "vinter" expansion!
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#223 - 2011-10-30 11:41:47 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Tierere wrote:
There not joking when they say...
"The Talos excels as an “in your face glass cannon”"
" Think of it as a smaller, more expendable Vindicator"

and with the stats as quoted
Shield HP: 2111.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 0/50/40/20
Armor HP: 2272.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 50/10/35/35
Structure HP: 2597.0 (of course, it's a Gallente ship)

Tell me those stat's aren't right, that's only half HP of the Brutix and that last's about 2 secs once it's been primaried.
There wont even be time to cycle those guns once, before coming home in your pod.

Think of it as a larger, more expensive Catalyst



That Catalyst comparison may not be too far off the mark... basically echo's many of the previous comments about the flawed concept of a paper thin, armored brawler with point blank blasters. Just wait till the Talos hits the MWD to close the distance...battleship fodder. Just doesn't make sense CCP.


If you are trying to close with a BS in one of these new BC's then you deserve what you get. BS are the counter for these ships, and will own them hard. These ships should be running from BS's and only trying to close with ships their own size or smaller.

Many people here are making the mistake of thinking BS guns equals BS toughness. It doesn't (and definately shouldn't imo) and the successful use of these ships will rely on avoiding exposing them to heavy dps at any range. Hit and run will be the name of the game, and choosing the right fights under the right circumstances.

The people who don't learn to fly these things right will lose a lot of these ships, and then whine that they are under-powered (or more probably under-tanked)

The people who learn to fly them right will own and then everyone else will be whining that they are OP.

Hopefully CCP will ignore both groups
Den Sethos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2011-10-30 12:00:27 UTC
Think of those new ships as WW2 tank-destroyers: a very powerful cannon for their size, with weak armour. The goal is to one-shoot their adversaries. If they get hit, they are toast.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2011-10-30 13:31:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Mariner6 wrote:
Tierere wrote:
There not joking when they say...
"The Talos excels as an “in your face glass cannon”"
" Think of it as a smaller, more expendable Vindicator"

and with the stats as quoted
Shield HP: 2111.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 0/50/40/20
Armor HP: 2272.0
Resistances: EM/Ex/K/T 50/10/35/35
Structure HP: 2597.0 (of course, it's a Gallente ship)

Tell me those stat's aren't right, that's only half HP of the Brutix and that last's about 2 secs once it's been primaried.
There wont even be time to cycle those guns once, before coming home in your pod.

Think of it as a larger, more expensive Catalyst



That Catalyst comparison may not be too far off the mark... basically echo's many of the previous comments about the flawed concept of a paper thin, armored brawler with point blank blasters. Just wait till the Talos hits the MWD to close the distance...battleship fodder. Just doesn't make sense CCP.


If you are trying to close with a BS in one of these new BC's then you deserve what you get. BS are the counter for these ships, and will own them hard. These ships should be running from BS's and only trying to close with ships their own size or smaller.

Many people here are making the mistake of thinking BS guns equals BS toughness. It doesn't (and definately shouldn't imo) and the successful use of these ships will rely on avoiding exposing them to heavy dps at any range. Hit and run will be the name of the game, and choosing the right fights under the right circumstances.

The people who don't learn to fly these things right will lose a lot of these ships, and then whine that they are under-powered (or more probably under-tanked)

The people who learn to fly them right will own and then everyone else will be whining that they are OP.

Hopefully CCP will ignore both groups


I essentially agree with most of your points. These ships should be "running" from BS by kiting them and using superior speed and transversal and sig radius to dish out DPS on a BS while mitigating their own. BS sized weapons means they will absolutely be able to dish it to BS's. And three of the ship models being designed will do this well. To think that just because some BS's show up on grid that these ships should warp away would make this ship worthless in most fleet fights, or are you just thinking about this ship being used in small venues only?

You state the case very well... "avoiding exposing them to heavy dps at any range." I agree with you 100%. Now how do you do that with a ship that can only engage within point blank? Never engage anything but the solitary 1 or 2 enemy ships? What tackle a Hurricane and hope that your BS sized guns will apply damage to him quickly enough before your weak tank fails? Add just one more enemy ship to the mix and you'll be dead. To get in close means you yourself will be pointed and held. IF there are only a few enemy in system, perhaps this will work but most other cases the Talos will get popped. Other than 1v1 as soon as his friends jump into system the Talos is done. However, the other ships I can see being very willing to take into some of the heaviest fleet actions by fighting at optimal and mitigating damage w/ distance. If primaried, no problem, warp away because I'm outside point range and maybe fighting aligned. Not an option for the Talos if it wants to apply DPS. So you are 100% right, and this is the very reason why you see so very few blaster boats flying right now compared to their more versatile, flexible brothers. The one good thing about most blaster boats is that they do have the tank to hang in there in the close fight if you are good enough to achieve it. I love in your face fighting, but except for very specific cases these ships aren't a good option for many engagements. And when flying around looking for a fight, and I want to fight, I'll sit and do too much of nothing waiting for the perfect fight by your logic with the Talos. I'm absolutely willing to push the envelope and die trying, but it has to have some reasonable chance of success.

So in summary I agree with you 100%, if you don't fly them right you will lose. That means not bringing the Talos in close in the majority of situations.... which means why fly it as then its just sitting there in space watching other ships apply DPS? If CCP still wants the Talos to be in close fighter then it will need tank. If no tank, then it needs range. The Vindicator is a great ship because it has the tank to survive the in close fight. This ship doesn't. That simple
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2011-10-30 13:43:46 UTC
Den Sethos wrote:
Think of those new ships as WW2 tank-destroyers: a very powerful cannon for their size, with weak armour. The goal is to one-shoot their adversaries. If they get hit, they are toast.



Sure. And tank destroyers had superior range gained by the heavier gun. This heavier gun was so large that it could not fit in a turret so the tank destroyer had only a very small ability to adjust deflection and elevation. The lack of a turret gave it a low profile and thus more survivable (think sig radius.) Also heavily angled and strong frontal armor. Weak armor elsewhere. But they were slow and used primarily in the defense utilizing ambush tactics. It used terrain and camouflage to achieve this. No real comparison in EVE unless there was a way to use things like asteroid belts to hide in and use for cover, but that mechanic does not exist. In close tank destroyers were tank meat as they would be out maneuvered. Once again, the point of failure of the Talos. Its not an alpha ship, its a dps ship. But its in a alpha hull. Give it tank or give it range or it will fail.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#227 - 2011-10-30 13:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Crazy KSK
I think the talos can be made viable in its close range in your face roll but it need a lot more speed so it can not be kited at all and a lot more dps so it can kill its targets before its tank fails
(I think all blaster boats lack significantly in both those points)
or yes give it a better tank but that would have to be a lot better and would make it OP compared to the other tier 3 BCs
and OP with a rail fit as well

oh and there we go again
if it would get more dps it would out dps all other long range ships with a rail fit

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2011-10-30 15:58:44 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
I think the talos can be made viable in its close range in your face roll but it need a lot more speed so it can not be kited at all and a lot more dps so it can kill its targets before its tank fails
(I think all blaster boats lack significantly in both those points)
or yes give it a better tank but that would have to be a lot better and would make it OP compared to the other tier 3 BCs
and OP with a rail fit as well

oh and there we go again
if it would get more dps it would out dps all other long range ships with a rail fit


If CCP still want's the Talos to be an in close killer then I'm thinking the answer would be a paradigm shift and add 3 mids and drop 2 lows. This would allow it to shield tank and still mount prop mod, scram, and web. The rest for shield tank. Lows would be for damage control and weapons upgrades. MIght need to lower sig radius a bit so that with the shield tank the sig radius wouldn't be out of control. Finally a slight modification to base stats to prefer shield tanking. I know this is totally opposite of the Gallente normal armor tank ideal, but this might work.

This would allow the ship to maintain speed/agility for getting in range, it would still need a sufficient buff to shield numbers to give it sufficient tank to survive a bit, and would make it even more viable when supported by shield logi since the repair is instant vice delayed which is key for an in close brawler. I'm sure I'm about to get flame sprayed by angry responses but just an idea.
ariel jade
Terran Colonial Guard
#229 - 2011-10-30 19:33:45 UTC
Omnipharious wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
exactly!
thats why I think the web bonus is bad on the talos, anyone is just gonna kite it
till gallente gets to be the fastest race a web bonus like this is wasted since it will never get into range to use it



I agree, that web bonus should be used on something else...


True with Gallente ships are slower and they have issues with trying to play the catch up game, but if you make yourself the intended target those faster ships come to you and then you web them. Still on a how I don't bother with webs myself.
Naomi Wildfire
Sonnenlegion
Shadow Cartel
#230 - 2011-10-30 20:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Wildfire
dunno, i find the general shape unfitting and dislike it, it doesnt look as smooth as the rest of the gallentes and reminds me more to the caldari cerberus.

Also Blaster Spec V .. 14D left, lets give it a try

ISD BH Newmind > Jingle bells, Tuxford smells, Falcon laid an egg =D
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2011-10-31 11:11:54 UTC
I don't think this BC looks like a Gallente ship at all. Too many flat faces and sharp edges.

Glad i decided to stop training for Gallente ships a long time ago... Tornado her i come Big smile

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Cron Moonvexor
Halloween Mining Party
#232 - 2011-10-31 12:58:18 UTC
Maybe it's nothing new for the majority nevertheless I'll write some of my thoughts about... SPEED.
Speed advantage of TALOS over the Hurricane. Just numbers: 210m\s 1st and 165m\s 2nd. O_O .
If we do some math, we get:
avg Talos speed = 210*1.25*6,36= 1669.5 m\s (1st multiplier - navigation skill L5 bonus, 2nd - mwd boost with acceler. control skill L5 effect)
or = 210*1.25*9.05= 2375.6 m\s (when mwd on Talos is overheated)
--- btw, You can check those multipliers in eft ^_^ ---

simlar digits for hurricane: 1311 and 1864 m\s.

So it's clear that Talos himself can kite hurri while dealing him damage in range of warp disruptor like Mega do 8)

That's all for now
Now I should go search the Maximum Velocity of Tornado xD
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2011-10-31 13:04:44 UTC
David Xavier wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
Looks good, I count only seven hard points though... D:


How do you think it will fare against your Tornado? Big smile


I don't want to be negative but It will die a horrible death while trying to get into blaster range. Also your drawing looks a thousand times better than the presented ship.

Ur art guys should have used The Aquilon instead of enlarging a destroyer model


I just hope that it works fine with the new Railguns

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2011-10-31 13:07:47 UTC
ariel jade wrote:
Omnipharious wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
exactly!
thats why I think the web bonus is bad on the talos, anyone is just gonna kite it
till gallente gets to be the fastest race a web bonus like this is wasted since it will never get into range to use it



I agree, that web bonus should be used on something else...


True with Gallente ships are slower and they have issues with trying to play the catch up game, but if you make yourself the intended target those faster ships come to you and then you web them. Still on a how I don't bother with webs myself.


That is why dumpenning come in hand... anyway... it is more like a defense against snipers... but will do the job...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2011-10-31 13:24:12 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
Den Sethos wrote:
Think of those new ships as WW2 tank-destroyers: a very powerful cannon for their size, with weak armour. The goal is to one-shoot their adversaries. If they get hit, they are toast.



Sure. And tank destroyers had superior range gained by the heavier gun. This heavier gun was so large that it could not fit in a turret so the tank destroyer had only a very small ability to adjust deflection and elevation. The lack of a turret gave it a low profile and thus more survivable (think sig radius.) Also heavily angled and strong frontal armor. Weak armor elsewhere. But they were slow and used primarily in the defense utilizing ambush tactics. It used terrain and camouflage to achieve this. No real comparison in EVE unless there was a way to use things like asteroid belts to hide in and use for cover, but that mechanic does not exist. In close tank destroyers were tank meat as they would be out maneuvered. Once again, the point of failure of the Talos. Its not an alpha ship, its a dps ship. But its in a alpha hull. Give it tank or give it range or it will fail.


It still can use Railguns.... and if i'm correct... the new fix should give blasters bigger Alpha damage and Railguns more DPS so it would be a good ship to

1 - DPS at long ranges using Sensor dampeners (Range + Cover like Tank destroyers)
2 - Instant-kill smaller ships at close range using blasters and tracking bonus but it would need tankability.

keeping in mind that minmatar is the opposite ( artillery gives good alpha to instant kill and autocannons gives good DPS )

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#236 - 2011-10-31 19:34:27 UTC
Machti Nutako wrote:
What are the new raven and such skins? Everyone I know has been talking about them, and i really want to know, but i can't seem to find them anywhere on the forums


Caldari trying to hijack a Gallente ship thread ... Roll

Nothing clever at this time.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2011-10-31 21:21:02 UTC
Machti Nutako wrote:
What are the new raven and such skins? Everyone I know has been talking about them, and i really want to know, but i can't seem to find them anywhere on the forums

Raven reskin what? Seriously? Anybody got a link to this info? I seem to have missed anything regarding a Raven reskin that I have been praying for so long for. I hope it looks epic...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Machti Nutako
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2011-11-01 00:15:38 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
I think the talos can be made viable in its close range in your face roll but it need a lot more speed so it can not be kited at all and a lot more dps so it can kill its targets before its tank fails
(I think all blaster boats lack significantly in both those points)
or yes give it a better tank but that would have to be a lot better and would make it OP compared to the other tier 3 BCs
and OP with a rail fit as well

oh and there we go again
if it would get more dps it would out dps all other long range ships with a rail fit



i agree with this completely. CCP should increase its tank to at least match the brutix, otherwise nobody is gonna actually use this ship. Id be pointless if its close range and has that little armor. Right now, i think it would be a good shield ship because of the advantage to epic dps. BUT, since its gallente it should be able to armor tank significantly better and be able to get its web bonus right. (With more speed) Since it has so little hp, i would not be getting this. I really recommend that since this is still in the developing stage, that it at least match up with the brutix tank-wise or maybe even exceed without reaching the dominix. Otherwise it really isn't worth it to be a more expensive catalyst.
Machti Nutako
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2011-11-01 00:17:20 UTC
Nick Bison wrote:
Machti Nutako wrote:
What are the new raven and such skins? Everyone I know has been talking about them, and i really want to know, but i can't seem to find them anywhere on the forums


Caldari trying to hijack a Gallente ship thread ... Roll



im actually gallente. I don't like caldari that much :P just was what first came to mind.
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#240 - 2011-11-01 19:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Phantomania
Caldari Naga- Official

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