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Is it wise to train for Amarr when the no longer have a mission boat First post
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Daimon Kaiera

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 513

#41 - 2013-04-22 17:10:09 UTC | Edited by: Daimon Kaiera

Define low SP because I have around 7.9 million and I can only do 3's to a slightly satisfactory level.

Oh yeah, it's because the ship/fitting I'm flying only benefits from around 2 million of those skill points. Maybe 3-4 if I don't only include the ship/missiles/shield tanking skills.

That low SP excuse.

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Viziam Amarr Empire 11,532
James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#42 - 2013-04-22 17:14:30 UTC Aralieus wrote: So your saying a ship your not skilled to fly isnt going to perform well? Imagine that...here is a piece of advice, stfu. Thats Skill The F#$@ Up Are you talking to me? I sure hope not. Enjoying the rain today? ;)

New Eden Public Security Section 9 93
CMD Ishikawa New Eden Public Security Section 9 Likes received: 93	#43 - 2013-04-22 17:28:32 UTC You don't need to be cap stable to succesfully run missions and even be eficient, as many people have stated before kill fast is better than be cap stable. Listen the advices about training support skills, they will make the diference when flying any ship of any race and faction.


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#44 - 2013-04-22 17:31:17 UTC 1 We're not asking for cap stability. We're asking to be able to fire our guns for a reasonable amount of time. 4 minutes is not reasonable. Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Daimon Kaiera

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 513

#45 - 2013-04-22 17:35:14 UTC | Edited by: Daimon Kaiera

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

We're not asking for cap stability. We're asking to be able to fire our guns for a reasonable amount of time.
4 minutes is not reasonable.

I'm pretty sure my Oracle is cap stable if I turn off the MWD and Armour repper.

(With those on it's about 1:10 to 1:30.)

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#46 - 2013-04-22 17:36:06 UTC | Edited by: James Amril-Kesh

Daimon Kaiera wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

We're not asking for cap stability. We're asking to be able to fire our guns for a reasonable amount of time.
4 minutes is not reasonable.

I'm pretty sure my Oracle is cap stable if I turn off the MWD and Armour repper.

The Oracle is overpowered. I was talking about battleships. I specifically based my number there on the Abaddon.

The Apocalypse gets 6 minutes, but that's still not enough. This is only the guns, here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Daimon Kaiera

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 513

#47 - 2013-04-22 17:38:28 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Daimon Kaiera wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

We're not asking for cap stability. We're asking to be able to fire our guns for a reasonable amount of time.
4 minutes is not reasonable.

I'm pretty sure my Oracle is cap stable if I turn off the MWD and Armour repper.

The Oracle is overpowered. I was talking about battleships. I specifically based my number there on the Abaddon.

I sold my Abaddon. Never used it.
I'll stick to BCs and possibly Strategic Cruisers thank you.


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#48 - 2013-04-22 17:38:55 UTC 1 Thanks for making my point. Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Daimon Kaiera

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 513

#49 - 2013-04-22 17:40:16 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Thanks for making my point.

At least I only went as far as Amarr Battleships III.

Ager Agemo

Rainbow Ponies Incorporated

Likes received: 445

#50 - 2013-04-22 17:47:22 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Bes mission boats are not the ones that can tank longer.. But the ones that can kill faster the mission rats. Now apoc became WAY faster.

People are being really shortsighted. Lot sof people still think they need to keep the repairer turned on all time. You DONT.

How did Apoc become faster? It's not getting any more damage. All it's getting is more tracking.
If anything it's slower because you have to dedicate more modules to cap just to be able to keep your guns running. You'll probably end up fitting less heat sinks.

No, you don't have to keep your repairer running all the time. You do have to keep your guns running, and you can't even do that without several cap mods.

if you don't fly amarr ships then that's why you don't understand, having a better tracking will allow you to hit for more damage npcs of any size thus killing stuff faster, is that simple.

Murk Paradox

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 760

#51 - 2013-04-22 17:57:36 UTC | Edited by: Murk Paradox

Darwins Hammer wrote:

I decided to train up an Amarrian character and it was all going well for me until i heard about the changes to the Amarrian battleships in the next expansion. I have low skills and i was always told that the Geddon and the Abaddon where not great for low skilled characters as you ran out of cap very quickly and had major repping problems.

The Apocalyse was there as a great stand in as it had a bonus to cap which was very forgiving to low SP characters and allowed you to do level 4 missions.

But now that the cap bonus is being removed the Apoc will be as cap dependant as the Abaddon.

What options are there for a low skilled player who wants to train Amarr or will they be handicapped verses other races regarding battleships.

Thanks for your input

Considering that the changes are due in what, 2 months? I would definitely be suggesting you get your Engineering up to 5, especially if you are looking to be flying battleships as opposed to tanking up a BC which would be a bit more forgiving in your cap needs.

EDIT- Also, use power diagnostic modules if you need to. Don't worry about trying to fit that 3rd heatsink. With the Abaddon you don't need trimarks, and only need 1 repper. Use CCC and power diagnostic with 1 cap recharger and fit the rest with 2 heatsink, tracking computer, and tracking enhancer. Don't use mwd, use ab.

Should be fine. Even with the NEW changes to armor resistance bonus.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#52 - 2013-04-22 18:00:32 UTC

Ager Agemo wrote:

if you don't fly amarr ships then that's why you don't understand, having a better tracking will allow you to hit for more damage npcs of any size thus killing stuff faster, is that simple.

I understand how tracking works, thank you. I also understand how instead of fitting multiple tracking computers as before people will instead make up for the loss of the cap bonus by fitting more cap rechargers.

A tracking scripted TC gets you 30% tracking bonus. Many Amarr mission runners would fit two of them, which gets you ~56% tracking bonus. Now that the bonus to energy turret cap use is gone many mission runners are going to drop the TCs for cap rechargers and take the 37.5% bonus.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Aralieus

Shadowbane Syndicate

Likes received: 301

#53 - 2013-04-22 18:13:40 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Aralieus wrote:

So your saying a ship your not skilled to fly isnt going to perform well? Imagine that...here is a piece of advice, stfu. Thats Skill The F#$@ Up

Are you talking to me? I sure hope not.

I was talking about the OP and anybody else that's gets confused about a ship that doesn't perform well and instead of looking at their skill sheet says the ship is just broke, do you fit in that category?

Oderint Dum Metuant

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#54 - 2013-04-22 18:15:48 UTC

Aralieus wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Aralieus wrote:

So your saying a ship your not skilled to fly isnt going to perform well? Imagine that...here is a piece of advice, stfu. Thats Skill The F#$@ Up

Are you talking to me? I sure hope not.

No, because I'm basing my evaluations of the ships on how they perform with all skills at level 5.
So that answers my question.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Aralieus

Shadowbane Syndicate

Likes received: 301

#55 - 2013-04-22 18:22:58 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Aralieus wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Aralieus wrote:

So your saying a ship your not skilled to fly isnt going to perform well? Imagine that...here is a piece of advice, stfu. Thats Skill The F#$@ Up

Are you talking to me? I sure hope not.

No, because I'm basing my evaluations of the ships on how they perform with all skills at level 5.
So that answers my question.

I'm not sure what your point its here but like before fit a cap booster on Amarr ships, problem solved. Cap stability is extremely over-rated and it's usually coming from low skilled characters who don't even need to be in a BS. Remember your tank is in your high slots.

Oderint Dum Metuant


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#56 - 2013-04-22 18:24:34 UTC You mean the high slots that deplete your cap in 6 minutes? And you're seriously saying that they should fit a cap booster when those run out in less than ten minutes as well? Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Secular Wisdom 1,499
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom Likes received: 1,499	#57 - 2013-04-22 18:26:32 UTC What the hell is a mission boat lol The Tears Must Flow

Murk Paradox

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 760

#58 - 2013-04-22 18:30:36 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

You mean the high slots that deplete your cap in 6 minutes?
And you're seriously saying that they should fit a cap booster when those run out in less than ten minutes as well?

6 minutes is plenty enough captime left for doing a L4 mission. Especially with a cap recharger and/or cap booster not to mention CCC rigs.

Even at 3 minutes you MIGHT need to warp out to replenish cap/repair if low sp.

My navy omen has 1m 50sec of cap and it does L4, and I only just broke 12m sp personally.

Support skills are very very important for larger ships.


Aralieus Shadowbane Syndicate Likes received: 301	#59 - 2013-04-22 19:05:31 UTC James Amril-Kesh wrote: You mean the high slots that deplete your cap in 6 minutes? And you're seriously saying that they should fit a cap booster when those run out in less than ten minutes as well? Thats exactly what I'm saying, by fitting one you free up module slots and rig slots. Oderint Dum Metuant

Bat Country Pandemic Horde 19,001
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#60 - 2013-04-22 19:13:51 UTC James Amril-Kesh wrote: You mean the high slots that deplete your cap in 6 minutes? And you're seriously saying that they should fit a cap booster when those run out in less than ten minutes as well? My old nightmare ran with less.

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EVE General Discussion

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Viziam

Amarr Empire

New Eden Public Security Section 9

Rainbow Ponies Incorporated

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Shadowbane Syndicate

Secular Wisdom

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde