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Is it wise to train for Amarr when the no longer have a mission boat

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#21 - 2013-04-22 13:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It is actually going to be as bad as people make it out. Because Lasers had such crippling cap they were virtually unusable on a PvE boat without a cap bonus. The 'Cap buff' doesn't change that much at all, they still use magnitudes more than anything else, for similar damage. (& take more PG by a major amount also)
Cap Boosters simply do not work for PvE boats when you need longer term cap stability.



You don't have to stick 150m3 of ammo in an amarr ship. I can't possibly see how you run out of cap boosters, even if you do have to run the booster a few extra cycles to cover a net cap deficit, than I do in a neutral without repping 5 gun domi.

Cap stability is a bad idea that costs you applied dps, and is a self perpetuating problem, because losing all your mids to a rack of cap rechargers means that you lack the ability to counter fit damps or jams and thus get stuck having to tank that dps instead of blowing it away, and since time is money, sitting there tanking stuff instead of blowing it away, eventually will cost you the whole ship you imagined you saved with cap stability.

Edit : I made a prophecy for something different for running L4 missions, and that is perfectly fine running on a cap booster, can't imagine it without omnis!
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-04-22 13:44:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Markku Laaksonen
I could be totally wrong here, so let me know.

It seems the Myrmidon is flown with projectile turrets because of two reason. The hull has no turret bonus, and the turrets use no cap. The pilot focuses on drones and uses capless, unbonused turrets for a bit of extra DPS and managing aggro.

The first thing I thought when the Armageddon changes were posted was that pilots would do the same with this. I don't fly the Myrmidon, old Apocalypse, or new Armageddon, but couldn't you throw projectiles/launchers on it, use rat specific ammo, Warriors/Hobs depending on Angels/Everyone, rat specific tank, and then call it good?

Edit: Also incoming cruise damage buff. So maybe lean to missiles over projectiles? Just a thought.

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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-04-22 13:45:44 UTC
Obsidian Dagger wrote:
Mac Tir wrote:
octahexx Charante wrote:
whatever you do dont train missiles like someone said,when you skill gunnery skills you buff all types of turrets and crosstraining is minimal to swap what type is best,with missiles your stuck with the sp in a contained tree that doesnt benefit anything else.



...and when you train missile skills you buff all missiles.



Crosstrain everything. I did and now I can steal fly nearly everything!


Not to mention it makes you nerf proof.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-04-22 14:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Masuka Taredi
pussnheels wrote:
Darwins Hammer wrote:
I decided to train up an Amarrian character and it was all going well for me until i heard about the changes to the Amarrian battleships in the next expansion. I have low skills and i was always told that the Geddon and the Abaddon where not great for low skilled characters as you ran out of cap very quickly and had major repping problems.

The Apocalyse was there as a great stand in as it had a bonus to cap which was very forgiving to low SP characters and allowed you to do level 4 missions.

But now that the cap bonus is being removed the Apoc will be as cap dependant as the Abaddon.


What options are there for a low skilled player who wants to train Amarr or will they be handicapped verses other races regarding battleships.


Thanks for your input

what on earth are you talking about ?? no mission boats any more ???
Amarr ships will still be great for missions except the armageddon , but something that goes with all amarr battle ships
They only starts to shine when you got good to perfect skills in ALL the support skills
so start training those engineering and mechanic skills asap


Agreed. You need to work on your support skills if you want to get the best out of bigger ships especially. Failing that lvl 3s are easily soloable in decently fitted t1 battlecruisers. More than enough income whilst skills train for lvl 4s.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-04-22 14:34:12 UTC
Xearal wrote:
Use their droneboat?


this
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#26 - 2013-04-22 14:41:51 UTC
If you want to complain about the proposed changes, just come right out and do it next time. Smile

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-04-22 14:43:34 UTC
Bes mission boats are not the ones that can tank longer.. But the ones that can kill faster the mission rats. Now apoc became WAY faster.

People are being really shortsighted. Lot sof people still think they need to keep the repairer turned on all time. You DONT.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#28 - 2013-04-22 15:04:52 UTC
In large fleet fight situations, how much EHP will the "new" abbadon have compared to the Maelstrom?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#29 - 2013-04-22 15:13:04 UTC
ISD Gallifreyan wrote:
Fly what you like. There is no one WIN ship.


*cough* tengu *cough*

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-04-22 15:31:09 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
HAM Legion.

Because the HAM Tengu isn't infinitely better.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-04-22 15:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Bes mission boats are not the ones that can tank longer.. But the ones that can kill faster the mission rats. Now apoc became WAY faster.

People are being really shortsighted. Lot sof people still think they need to keep the repairer turned on all time. You DONT.

How did Apoc become faster? It's not getting any more damage. All it's getting is more tracking.
If anything it's slower because you have to dedicate more modules to cap just to be able to keep your guns running. You'll probably end up fitting less heat sinks.

No, you don't have to keep your repairer running all the time. You do have to keep your guns running, and you can't even do that without several cap mods.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-04-22 15:34:25 UTC
Amarr will be fine, if not better than it was already.

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Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#33 - 2013-04-22 15:46:57 UTC
Darwins Hammer wrote:
I decided to train up an Amarrian character and it was all going well for me until i heard about the changes to the Amarrian battleships in the next expansion. I have low skills and i was always told that the Geddon and the Abaddon where not great for low skilled characters as you ran out of cap very quickly and had major repping problems.

The Apocalyse was there as a great stand in as it had a bonus to cap which was very forgiving to low SP characters and allowed you to do level 4 missions.

But now that the cap bonus is being removed the Apoc will be as cap dependant as the Abaddon.


What options are there for a low skilled player who wants to train Amarr or will they be handicapped verses other races regarding battleships.


Thanks for your input


Wait for changes. Fit a vampire Armageddon. The capacitor injections from uber ranged vampires should keep your lasers, optional prop mod and armor reps running without issue.

Unless the mechanics to NPC cap warfare has changed.

Hope that helps

Smash
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-04-22 15:51:23 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Amarr will be fine, if not better than it was already.

Heh, that's cute that you actually think that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#35 - 2013-04-22 16:02:39 UTC
Talk to people and fleet up. If you put an Augoror 50 km behind back you'll have all the cap you need and way more rep than you can come up with alone. Now you can get closer to the rats and fit more damage mods. Maybe not twice as fast, but a lot more fun having someone to talk to and working in a team.

In the mean time run level 3's or go to nullsec and rat there.
George Wilkes Hill
Liam Neeson Never Dies
#36 - 2013-04-22 16:04:39 UTC
So you saw the thread on BS changes in features and ideas? Well just below it is a thread detailing changes to large energy turrets.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=224896&find=unread
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#37 - 2013-04-22 16:13:11 UTC
My question would be why the heck are you trying to run L4 missions with low skills? If you just rush to get into that BS without the supporting skills to use it well you're not doing yourself any favors. You'll end up either taking forever to complete those missions (thus wasting potential isk per time spent) or, will lose ships.

My advice would be to slow down, get the supporting skills trained and in the meantime use a BC to run L3s. Better to fly a lower ship class well than rush straight to a badly fitted BS.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-04-22 16:18:37 UTC
ive always thought lasers were ****** for lvl 4s

if you must use lasers, then a cap booster and some rigs that reduce laser cap use would be a good way to go.

I dont think i can imagine using a armor tank and lasers without one anyway!

also: new geddon is going to be the new domi when it comes to being a jack of all trades.

450+ dps to 55km with no fittings slots used means you have so so many options in terms of tank and damage.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-04-22 16:33:04 UTC
George Wilkes Hill wrote:
So you saw the thread on BS changes in features and ideas? Well just below it is a thread detailing changes to large energy turrets.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=224896&find=unread

It's not enough.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#40 - 2013-04-22 17:00:16 UTC
So your saying a ship your not skilled to fly isnt going to perform well? Imagine that...here is a piece of advice, stfu. Thats Skill The F#$@ Up

Oderint Dum Metuant