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o7 MD, and a few questions from a new trader

Author
Hatha Moss
Midnight Oil Labor Division
#1 - 2013-04-21 20:40:20 UTC
So basically, I'm a new station trader who's been working pretty constantly to up my capital. I'm only experienced with simple buy and sell orders, but today was chatting it up with a much older player (we've spoken several times in my main's corp chat) and he offered me what seems like quite a deal, but I feel a bit in over my head, enough to make a first post on the forums on this toon for some questions. Basically, my total capital is under a bil, and my possible associate offered to sell me what I'm assuming to be his corp's pvp loot on a reular basis at right around jita buy prices, after a discussion we'd had about me being patient enough to .01 folks for a while sitting on my sell orders. Now this seems to have ups and downs, but I wanted to hear from someone with experience. On one hand, I'll be bypassing posting buy orders, which means fees, order slots which are currently at a premium, and the time taken to fill them. On the other hand, I won't have as much say in what I buy. Should I be dealing with my purchase prices and their percent difference from market buy prices on a per-order basis based on my profi percentages, or should I ask to agree on a set percent lower than market price? Are my own orders going to suffer from having to post his corp's sells, or it is more likely he'll only have a few of any given item and popular mods that sell fast at that? A rough estimate he gave me was ~5-600m worth every couple weeks, which I assume is a total formerly arrived at by him based on selling to buy orders? Assuming I pay attention to our orders, keep track of price and sales of these goods, and so on, can this be a trick? I don't really feel like I'm a big enough mark to be a worthy subject of a scam, and don't think that's going on here, but at the same time, I'm in 1mm above my head. Anyway, I just wanted to ask these few question from young but trying to learn station trader perhaps trying to make some of his first connections in this area of the game. Any advice,grief, commentary, offers to invest in my future, or requests for clarification of any points from this poorly written post are appreciate! And, o/ MD!
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#2 - 2013-04-21 20:46:19 UTC
I think what you are asking is, does bulk buying of loot for resale pay off.

The answer is, yes, it can do.

The downside is you can end up stuck with stuff that takes a while to sell, but, if they are willing to sell you items at jita buy prices, and you are reselling in jita, then that is not too bad a deal.

There are various ways that bulk deals are usually set up, ranging from (Jita buy + Jita Sell)/2 to Jita Buy + X%, Jita Sell - X%, and many combinations of these.

As long as you feel you can shift these items at a decent pace (So you dont tie up all your isk in assets sitting on your hangar floor wating to sell), and you can afford to buy the first lot, then I would say go for it.

I would however check the daily volume on the items, and see whether they are going to buy or sell orders, and maybe take 1 lot of loot as a test run, to see how it goes.
Hatha Moss
Midnight Oil Labor Division
#3 - 2013-04-21 20:52:34 UTC
To the last paragraph, of course. To the feat few paragraphs, thanks for helping to tidy up my thoughts, giving me some pricing options to think about, and I appreciate your input!
Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-21 21:02:42 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
I would however check the daily volume on the items, and see whether they are going to buy or sell orders, and maybe take 1 lot of loot as a test run, to see how it goes.


Rhivre is spot on, do exactly this. Tell your corpmate you'll test it out for a week or so, and if it's not really working for you then respectfully decline to continue.

A couple of other things to think about:


  • I'm not sure where your base of operations for PvP is but do you really want to haul all the loot from them to Jita all the time?
  • If you're buying items in one region/system for Jita buy price and hauling it all to Jita to sell, that's not station trading. That's inter-regional trading, and personally I wouldn't do that unless I could get the items for under Jita buy price otherwise there's no point in spending what will eventually amount to hours and days hauling the stuff around.
  • If it were me I'd say that I need to buy them at a premium discount for the hassle of having to haul them myself and not having any say in what I was actually buying. Tell him you need a 10% discount from all Jita buy prices, or perhaps 5% discount for each different region you have to travel through to get to Jita/The Forge if you're a long way off.


Just a few more things to consider.
Cheers,
EM

Inter-Regional Trading Basics : http://evemogul.info

Daily market tweets : https://twitter.com/EveMogul

Eve Trading Videos - Starring... me! : http://www.youtube.com/user/evemogul

Hatha Moss
Midnight Oil Labor Division
#5 - 2013-04-21 21:23:15 UTC
In actuality, I don't sell in jita, and wasn't planning on hauling. I do work out of another major trade hub in empire, which is in the same faction's space as my possible associate operates when he's in high-sec. So, he'd be able to haul to the region I trade in. I just figured we'd use Jita's prices since they're not going to be too different for higher-end mods. I realize there will be a bit of difference, but it'll go both directions in the longer term.
Mari Hata
Main Street Crafts and Goods
#6 - 2013-04-21 22:31:12 UTC
I fail to see what's in it for your colleague, though. Except if Jita buy orders are consistently higher than your hub, but even then, trade is not his/her primary trade... So, is that a deal or just plain charity?

♫ ♪ ♪

Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-21 22:32:39 UTC
The fact that he's hauling it for you makes a difference. Although I'm not sure how it really differs from buying the items yourself at market, other than you'd save the market slots as you say, but often with these things you can't always see if it's a worthwhile endeavor or not unless you actually test it out for a little while. I don't think you're getting scammed by the way, but I don't think you can really ask for more of a discount given he'll be hauling the stuff to the hub for you. And if there's not an extra discount then aside from saving the market order slots and some time I'm not sure what the benefit is.

It sounds like you've got it mostly figured out, but if it were me I'd probably just use the buy order prices for the hub you're trading at. With some things prices do swing wildly between hubs so it's probably best to double check your preferred hub plus Jita buy prices to make sure neither you nor your corpmate are getting a bad deal.

Good luck!

Inter-Regional Trading Basics : http://evemogul.info

Daily market tweets : https://twitter.com/EveMogul

Eve Trading Videos - Starring... me! : http://www.youtube.com/user/evemogul

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#8 - 2013-04-21 22:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
Mari Hata wrote:
I fail to see what's in it for your colleague, though. Except if Jita buy orders are consistently higher than your hub, but even then, trade is not his/her primary trade... So, is that a deal or just plain charity?


Because it gets read of his orders faster than if he had to babysit them himself.

I bulk buy from several builders and other people, and because I do full time trading, it is a convenience thing for the seller.

They can either dump to Jita buys, which means them moving the goods there themselves, or sell them at their regional hub, with the babysitting involved with that, or sell them to me at an agreed price and I will deal with the hassle of selling them via sell orders.

The price has to be higher than what they would get for dumping at Jita, and lower than I would pay via other bulk means for it to work out, and, with the exception of 1-2 items which I have turned down due to lack of margin, it works out for both parties.

Its like that corp which buys your mission salvage off you....sure, its below market price, but, it means you can continue missioning or whatever without the hassle of dealing with the market.
Hatha Moss
Midnight Oil Labor Division
#9 - 2013-04-21 23:13:59 UTC
Rhivre wrote:


Because it gets read of his orders faster than if he had to babysit them himself.



This. He just wants to dump stuff, but we figured if he sold it to me at buy prices it'll open my slots up, I won't have to wait for orders to fill, and he won't have to sit his orders.