Missions & Complexes

I'll bite.

Beforehand: Drones add not too much dps for a low skilled pilot but can add 99 dps if using 5 Hobgoblin II's from maxed drone user. Dps values are without drones.

A minimally skilled drake pilot (at most 2 weeks of training) could fly this fit, have 60k EHP including OGB bonus and deal a mere 123 dps.
[Drake, Basic Incursion Fit]
4x Ballistic Control System I

Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field
Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
2x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

6x 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
Auto Targeting System I

3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Targeting system is to deal with skill gap and there are many tank mods to create the buffer. By all means swap the remaining extender for another painter.

The same fit above with All V skills has just over 91k EHP including OGB bonus and deals a measly 270 dps.

Swapping to this next fit with a T2 tank and T2 BCS's gives 48.5k EHP including OGB bonus and deals 145 dps.
With All V skills the fit has almost 73k EHP including OGB bonus and deals 319 dps.

For the low skilled pilot the only change is getting Weapon Upgrades IV and Tactical Shield Manipulation IV

[Drake, Basic Incursion Fit]
4x Ballistic Control System II

EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
3x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

6x 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
Auto Targeting System I

3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

To use the T2 Heavy Missile Launchers, the low skilled pilot needs to train Missile Launcher Operation IV, Heavy Missiles V, Heavy Missile Specialization I and Electronics V (as the T2 launchers require more CPU and PG)
Changing the above fit to have T2 launchers (but use T1 ammo) the low skilled pilot deals 184 dps and the All V pilot deals 354 dps.
Training Missile Launcher Operation V will allow usage of T2 Heavy Missiles. This would change the dps to 249 and 478 respectively for the low skilled and All V pilot when using Scourge Fury missiles.
All this while the Battlecruiser skill is still at 1 and with many other missile support skills not even trained.

Ofcouse this comparison isn't truly fair because of the support skills, so lets compare the low skilled pilot between fits:
- 123 dps with T1 BCS's (for their meta's are quite pricy) and meta 4 launchers
- 145 dps with T2 BCS's and meta 4 launchers
- 184 dps with T2 BCS's and T2 launchers (T1 ammo)
- 249 dps with T2 BCS's and T2 launchers (T2 fury ammo)

As percentages you would go from 100 to 118, 150, 202. So the increase in dps is quite noticable.

Again for the sake of comparing, take each fit with All V skills:
- 270 dps with T1 BCS's (for their meta's are quite pricy) and meta 4 launchers
- 319 dps with T2 BCS's and meta 4 launchers
- 354 dps with T2 BCS's and T2 launchers (T1 ammo)
- 478 dps with T2 BCS's and T2 launchers (T2 fury ammo)

As percentages these are 100, 118, 131, 177. The increase is a bit less because in the above comparison the low-skilled pilot gains skill between each fitting.

So, the difference between meta 4 and T2 launchers for an All V pilot?
(354 / 319 - 1) * 100% = 10.97%
(478 / 319 - 1) * 100% = 49.84%

Both of these differences are far from marginal.
So there's your numbers. Have fun.

Althought this sounds like it might be true, your way off, but your excused cause you do not know.
So here it is, take a seat and hold on to your chair. it will rock your world.

e-peen :
-Used to describe the act of showing off or stroking one's own ego, esp. with regard to computer game prowess.

example a:
1337s4v10r: U l00zrz just ***** coz u dont no how 2 play ur toons rite!!!11 lern 2 play, fuktards!!one11
exapmle b:
casual_gamer: There's always some ******* e-peening on this forum *ignore button*.

Here is some history:

BTL, or also known as Better Then Life, was the first incursion channel when it came to shields.
It was no secret that even if you could run a mission solo, it does not mean you can run incursions. In the early days of tvp, it was a requirement to have a combination of passive buffer tank with active resistance tank. In this case a tech 2 tank, they did not care what dps you did. (note: chnages might have happend wich im not aware of, so find out first)

That said, in incursions it is normal to contest sites, although some groups do not like this. Yet, in BTL, we contested and we contested alot, basecly every "possibility we got.
Most groups are so close to eachother that to be able to win a contest, you need to take advantage of everything you can find, from faction ammo with t2 guns to pirate faction hulls and shield tanking.

Combine losing contests for various reasons, ranging from the profile of the particular channel to the fitting doctorine, with the general attitude of the involved channels and you will find the tears and epeen running freely

It has nothing to do with the general regard for others, or lack there off.
I want this to be absolutly clear.
I have fc-ed fleets in BTLl where i trained up most of the early fc's inTVP. From fitting adviced to making them into great fc's.


So if you want to run incursions, be adviced.
Do yourself a favor and make sure you can fly both armor and shields, have your skills trained up to t2 including your gun skills. So that in case of e-peen comming your way you have options to choose from.

I think that one was covered pretty well by Miles in a previous post, but essentially 100% to 300% difference can be equated from both the T2 weapons systems and the skill required to field them.


The difference in resists from meta 4 to T2 can be compensated for by adding more hardeners and rigs, but a cursory look tells me that a ship with 60% resists will only tank 1650dps with 70% resist the tank goes up to 3000dps. So although it is possible to get 70% resists with meta 4 gear the loss of fitting slots spent on tank means a loss of DPS boosting modules like tracking computers, webs, target painters, and sensor boosters.

So although it would appear that meta 4 can be used, the subsequent loss of DPS application makes for a side effect that can’t be overcome with anything but training.

Most fleets that I am aware of use faction ammo almost exclusively, the base difference from T1 ammo in the mach I use is 100dps, not much? But if you add that to ten other pilots in fleet and you have the equivalent of an extra ship on grid. Making the completion times quicker and the amount of time the fleet is exposed to incoming DPS that much lower, thereby reducing risks.



As some people have already pointed this out in previous post I will only hit on it briefly, A pilot with the T2 modules trained have lower ‘sig rad’, higher resist, greater DPS, longer range, and quicker lock times. All these things make him safer, and by extension the fleet safer.

To sum up; All of the things you have pointed out are the ‘margins’ that fleets rely on to excel in Incursions. Each one is ‘Marginal’ but added together it can actually be like adding a whole extra wing of DPS and logis to the fleet without compromising the fleet or the payout.

As 'leadership' the difference can be made up to some extent, but the risks of losing someone’s ship due to their own lack of skills and fittings is not really an option. For one thing a ship loss disrupts the fleet and requires a replacement pilot, and secondly a ship loss discourages a potential pilot for much longer than he would have had to wait to get in fleet with the right skills and fittings.



I am unfortunately one of the guys in chat channels that has to give the bad news to some prospects that their fits or skills are not going to cut it in our particular community. I try to be as diplomatic as possible and sometimes I fail horribly, as a reward I have been called all kinds of creative names in chats and in the forums for my efforts. I expect you were handled harshly and that experience has left a bad taste, I know sometimes after a few hours of pass/failing fits and pilots I get a little worn down and my answers go from ‘That’ll work just adjust ...’’ to ‘Really? Are you serious?’

If it was me that handled you badly I hope I can help in here, and find you a group to fly with; Without risking all your hard earned ISK.
cont.

Thanks for your extensive reply. I am better informed.

Dont know what weapons you are referring to. Most of the meta 3/4s I use require some skills trained up. Some don't, and yes they are generally crap. The skill-requiring metastuff plus implants and enhancement gives you a performance profile which isn't really that far away from a fully trained up T2 player - roughly 30% difference when you add it all up. I've done *some* of the math (which in college was enough to give me a passing grade in calculus - I'm no Newton).

Please explain how this is done? I know it's a total noob question but I can never seem to get my drones to do anything other than just derp around the guy the are to assist or guard.

Hey guys,

I recently reactivated my account. I'm interested in doing incursions (VG). Last time I did them I was 'advertising' my ship in BTL_Pub and that's how I got invited to fleets. Back then I was flying a Mach but I sold it. Right now I have about 450m with some more ISK coming in when I sell some stuff I have laying around, after which I'll have about 600-700m.
With this amount of ISK I won't be able to buy any Mach or NM, so I think a CS would be my best bet (I remember Sleipnir fleets being very effective in the sites that spawned a lot of frigs), but maybe there are other ships that are popular right now?

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Bananap0wn
These are my skills. I'm able to fly any CS with t2 guns and I can also use T2 large lasers and T2 large projectiles.

What do you guys think would the best ship I could fly with my budget and my skills - which ship would get me in a good fleet? (I'd rather not invest in any more logi skills)

^^This. If you have only trained your Drones to 5 and are using tech 1 drones then your max control range is 25km. To get the max drone control range through skills you need to train Scout Drone Operation and Electronic Warfare Drone Inerfacing. This will get you a total drone control range of 65km. Rigs and Mods can take that range out even further.

Goldiee: It works with TPs also.

Ideally an FC would like you to be able to switch between 800s and 1400s, so a fit with both weapon systems available would be ideal for fleet invites. Personally I like the 1400s gives me a little time to survey between shots, and appraise the best place to land a big volley. But for a more engaging time the quick cycle of the 800s makes for more interesting gameplay. (And the ammo expense goes way down with Arties)

Both of those fits should work, and with some additional love from a pro Scimi the range on the autos will work just fine, alternatively some tracking love from the Scimis will round out the arties as well.

It can be the difference between lasting the 15 seconds it can take to get the right number of reps on you or not. Meta2 invuln is also the best you can get without going t2 or shiney, which makes that in particular a major concern, as most fits for new players should run double invuln + EM mod and thermal rig, to allow for both less than perfect response time and lower base HP from skills/t2 rigs/bittervet magic. LSE is also recommended on newer pilots ships, to provide more buffer and thus give more margin to catch people in shield.



The difference is a few points of base damage, modified by the damage multiplier of a weapon, which is usually between 3.5 and 20. This multiplies the low initial difference, and t1/meta1-4 damage mods/guns exaggerates the difference between t1 ammo and newbie friendly fit, faction ammo and newbie friendly fit and full t2 (including ammo) fit. Were it not for damage multipliers making this into a 10-25% increase in DPS, I would not see the issue. That said, if you are new and can fit the tank and have the ship ready to fly, in most newbie friendly channels someone will lend/give you the isk to get faction ammo if you are polite.