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Do you even FW?
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Jonasan Mikio
Must Remove Snow Flakes
#1 - 2013-04-18 18:58:38 UTC
Sup Guys,

So give me a sec here to put on my flame proof suite and then I will get started.



Ok so I am wondering if anyone (at least on the caldari side) even FWs. Do you guys just fleet up and roam around? I mean FW is a big game of RISK (you know the board game) and I feel most of the player base completely ignores that and just uses it to "get fights". I feel like there should be incentives on the per pilot level for working this "big RISK" game. I personally think that the bonuses received when you upgrade systems is worthless...


It frustrates me, that as a corp I have to give players reasons to want to do the FW stuff and not just roam around loosing ships. We have put LP buy back in place, and many other things and they work.. we are slowly starting to take back a few systems here and there.

Further more, most games when doing an "RvR" type mind set give players who take on "Overwhelming odds" some kind of "bonus" for doing so, and I feel like this game should be no different. Why would anyone want to join Caldari at this phase of factional warfare? I mean we are getting our asses handed to us. (its our fault mind you but still)

I feel like this is just gonna make more corps and players join gallente and it will just lead to a harder heavier snow ball.

Ideas/flames?

Discuss
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#2 - 2013-04-18 19:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Question: What country are you from?

Because I don't know what "do you even FW" means.

Caldari is fine. They are just relocating for a bit before figuring out their next move. I've seen this 3x before in the year I've been here.

Don't get too concerned about more people joining Gallente. All the bigger corps have promised to wardec the newer corps joining our side. This allows us to get free kills while fostering enough hate that they will join the Caldari cause.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-04-18 19:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
playing to win the game of RISK as you put it, is only doable if you plex as much as you can all day every day with your horde of buddies in other systems doing the same, runing from fights to cap other systems and get LP etc

playing for fun means making smaller goals, like one system or a few, or a const and keeping it with pvp and more plexing but for no money (defensive plexing kinda sucks a little of the fun out of it when you dont get a fight)

Then theres playing only to pvp, with some plexing to get fights.

and i suppose theres RPing which, is for the D&D PFY inside you with a mix of the other stuff above, plus yelling amarr victor a lot (if you are in PIE)

EDIT: the easy come easy go, low sp alts make whatever you want to do far more difficult in the long run. but spying is for people who need the metatvantage because they suck.... lol

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
#4 - 2013-04-18 19:42:24 UTC
I FW, bro.

The counterbalance to LP farming is the player-driven economy. Supply goes up, price comes down. We've tried making a Navy Domi Cartel and there's just too much access -- barrier to entry for getting LP is pretty friggin' low. Don't fret; the market will swell and collapse over time. Some entities will make a move on this ("Goons," Nulli Secunda, Ev0ke, possibly Gorgon Empire) and tilt the scales for profit, then cash out and move on. The market will work well going the other way -- the relative scarcity of the products of the losing faction increases their price. When Gallente was on the short end of the stick back in October-December 2012, we were still doing well on our isk/LP ratio. The changes in the LP store and tier pricing have only moderated this phenomenon, as the current ratio of LP/hr is less generous than the old ratio of effective LP/hr during cash-out weekends.

Boring technical assessments aside, remember that not all of your playerbase will be interested in the Sov war. It's just not attractive to a lot of folks. One of the hardest struggles is to try to make the proverbial horse drink from that proverbial river. You've done your job leading him there.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Jonasan Mikio
Must Remove Snow Flakes
#5 - 2013-04-18 19:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonasan Mikio
Muad 'dib wrote:
playing to win the game of RISK as you put it, is only doable if you plex as much as you can all day every day with your horde of buddies in other systems doing the same, runing from fights to cap other systems and get LP etc

playing for fun means making smaller goals, like one system or a few, or a const and keeping it with pvp and more plexing but for no money (defensive plexing kinda sucks a little of the fun out of it when you dont get a fight)

Then theres playing only to pvp, with some plexing to get fights.

and i suppose theres RPing which, is for the D&D PFY inside you with a mix of the other stuff above, plus yelling amarr victor a lot (if you are in PIE)

EDIT: the easy come easy go, low sp alts make whatever you want to do far more difficult in the long run. but spying is for people who need the metatvantage because they suck.... lol



I guess I just expected something different.. I mean I have been on and off FW sense FW was FW but this is the first I have committed a corp and my full time to it. I feel disappointed maybe in my "side". Yes I understand that capturing systems is mindless plexing, but isn't that where we are /suppose/ to get the pvp? I mean... if you are gonna roam systems why not just drop out of FW and have more targets? I suppose you would have to use bigger ships for that....

I suppose at the end of the day, I am frustrated with the fact that our side just wants to group up and go roaming, or gets mad if you do not respond to their cry for help, in a chat channel, in a world where everyone has 4000 chat channels open, and use TS3 for their communication...

Then finally when we do get a bit of team work together.. they all agree to do dumbass things like try to storm the strong holds with absolutely no realistic plan of winning besides suiciding fleets to massive amounts of greater numbers.


I guess maybe I just have the wrong mindset for FW. I suppose I will just throttle my corp/alliance back to doing the same thing... derping about waiting to get blobbed at a gate or two.


@Deen - https://www.google.com/search?q=Do+you+eve+lift+bro&aq=f&oq=Do+you+eve+lift+bro&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3j62l2.2061j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Do+you+even+lift+bro&spell=1&sa=X&ei=iUtwUb7-BIK28wTZnYHgDA&ved=0CDEQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45373924,d.eWU&fp=b2408e8183056c30&biw=1293&bih=704
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#6 - 2013-04-18 22:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Deen Wispa wrote:

Caldari is fine. They are just relocating for a bit before figuring out their next move. I've seen this 3x before in the year I've been here.

Don't get too concerned about more people joining Gallente. All the bigger corps have promised to wardec the newer corps joining our side. This allows us to get free kills while fostering enough hate that they will join the Caldari cause.



This ^^

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
YoYoMommy
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2013-04-18 22:48:27 UTC
Quote:
I mean... if you are gonna roam systems why not just drop out of FW and have more targets?


Sec status...
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-04-19 00:09:10 UTC
YoYoMommy wrote:
Quote:
I mean... if you are gonna roam systems why not just drop out of FW and have more targets?


Sec status...


Yet another bonus for leaving FW and pvping without that flag

Flashy red is sexy as hell.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#9 - 2013-04-19 01:04:34 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
playing to win the game of RISK as you put it, is only doable if you plex as much as you can all day every day with your horde of buddies in other systems doing the same, runing from fights to cap other systems and get LP etc



This is why most people don't bother even trying to gain sov in fw outside of the system they base in.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#10 - 2013-04-19 02:54:53 UTC
Why Plex? That's what Minmatar slaves are for.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#11 - 2013-04-19 03:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: 2manno Asp
simply put, ccp hasn't found the proper recipe of incentives that will produce a deisrealbe FW game result. yet.

that's the good news.

the bad news is that ccp has a long, long, history of half-baking goods, then leaving to half-bake other things.

right now, they're busy half-baking the eve/dust interface, half-baking ship re-balancing (sure they're taking a run at it, but rest assured whatever isn't balanced now or gets thrown out of balance based on these changes, will take a long time before they revisit). they half-bake most stuff.

good thing these guys never worked for apple. steve would have roasted them the 1st week, gave them walking papers the 2nd.
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#12 - 2013-04-19 06:13:52 UTC
Like EVERYTHING else in eve FW is what YOU make of it.

It's a sandbox and people will play in the sandbox in a variety of different ways.

For you it may be about taking the 'war' to the gallente and capping all the systems in the name of the state. If this is the case you find like minded ppl and give it a go.

For me now my goal is get my corp established and maybe get a name for ourselves as a decent fighting group who can be relied upon to assist our friends out when they need it. I'll be d-plexing and plexing when we are not fighting and maybe our little contribution will assist the bigger picture.

The Militia is not a coheasive fighting force. It is a bunch of random groups doing there own thing.

If you are having fun and not wearing the tinfoil too tight then you are 'winning' in my eyes Smile

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Jonasan Mikio
Must Remove Snow Flakes
#13 - 2013-04-19 13:14:02 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Like EVERYTHING else in eve FW is what YOU make of it.

It's a sandbox and people will play in the sandbox in a variety of different ways.

For you it may be about taking the 'war' to the gallente and capping all the systems in the name of the state. If this is the case you find like minded ppl and give it a go.

For me now my goal is get my corp established and maybe get a name for ourselves as a decent fighting group who can be relied upon to assist our friends out when they need it. I'll be d-plexing and plexing when we are not fighting and maybe our little contribution will assist the bigger picture.

The Militia is not a coheasive fighting force. It is a bunch of random groups doing there own thing.

If you are having fun and not wearing the tinfoil too tight then you are 'winning' in my eyes Smile



Hehe love me some Caldari State Capture guys! If you guys need anything feel free to poke me any time!
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-04-20 09:24:22 UTC
Jonasan Mikio wrote:
Sup Guys,

So give me a sec here to put on my flame proof suite and then I will get started.



Ok so I am wondering if anyone (at least on the caldari side) even FWs. Do you guys just fleet up and roam around? I mean FW is a big game of RISK (you know the board game) and I feel most of the player base completely ignores that and just uses it to "get fights". I feel like there should be incentives on the per pilot level for working this "big RISK" game. I personally think that the bonuses received when you upgrade systems is worthless...


It frustrates me, that as a corp I have to give players reasons to want to do the FW stuff and not just roam around loosing ships. We have put LP buy back in place, and many other things and they work.. we are slowly starting to take back a few systems here and there.

Further more, most games when doing an "RvR" type mind set give players who take on "Overwhelming odds" some kind of "bonus" for doing so, and I feel like this game should be no different. Why would anyone want to join Caldari at this phase of factional warfare? I mean we are getting our asses handed to us. (its our fault mind you but still)

I feel like this is just gonna make more corps and players join gallente and it will just lead to a harder heavier snow ball.

Ideas/flames?

Discuss


I agree with you and is one of the reasons why I got burnt out for fighting for Amarr, it was hard enough to get some of our pilots to stop using there alts to plex for minnies or gal for ISK! and then just do silly roams for Amarr for the pvp

I would guess some of your caldari pilots are doing the same, they know its easier to get ganked or into a fight as caldari, but use some cheap WCS alt for easy isk on the other side....

I think one thing that would really help create better FW is giving more control to player ran corps..... first I think APIs should upload all the VP a pilot earns and FW corps can have the VP totals added to the KB, so you could have VP rankings and maybe some rewards?

if anything it gives people something to compete for

and mostly (and something CCP wont do) is add FW LP to the corp tax (leave normal NPC LP alone, just FW LP to that FW Corp)

FW NPC corps take 14% (helps push people out of NPC Corp) and your corp could put say, 5% and earn LPs on each plex and mission

now this could be used to get isk for the corp, and used to create incentives, like this faction BS for the top VP gaininer for the month (not that he needs more LP stuff lol)

but right now there is no real way for FW corps to make isk, and so its hard to build a corp sometimes, like fueling POSs and having corp capital assets etc


but that will never happen
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#15 - 2013-04-20 11:20:12 UTC
Personally I enjoyed it when the Caldari were down to 1 system. So many fights and a good time. Yes, I use FW as a means to obtain easy fights. More "good fights" happen in the Cal-Gal warzone too. I haven't plexed in forever, though some of my corp's newbies do on a daily basis. Does this make me a terrible person?

I think not. I pay my sub and happily renew every month as a result of the fun I have.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#16 - 2013-04-20 12:40:01 UTC
there is no any big plan to take systems for caldari, some people / corps /alliances may have their own plans what to do.

As mechanic is what it is there is no reason to even try to take systems. Best situation for all is that one side gall/minmatar has all systems, then farmer alts have not much places to farm, other option is to make all systems vulnerable. Actual players can still make isk out of FW missions.

Only way to fight sov warfare is to farm more plexes than enemy and i am not sure if anyone want to compete on that against minmatar, it is just better to farm on their side too.

We can always base out of FW lowsec, have fun fight on some 'important' system and farm isk on minmatar side with alts, just as it is now going.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#17 - 2013-04-20 14:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is no any big plan to take systems for caldari, some people / corps /alliances may have their own plans what to do.

As mechanic is what it is there is no reason to even try to take systems. Best situation for all is that one side gall/minmatar has all systems, then farmer alts have not much places to farm, other option is to make all systems vulnerable. Actual players can still make isk out of FW missions.

Only way to fight sov warfare is to farm more plexes than enemy and i am not sure if anyone want to compete on that against minmatar, it is just better to farm on their side too.

We can always base out of FW lowsec, have fun fight on some 'important' system and farm isk on minmatar side with alts, just as it is now going.



Soo, same as it always was, apart from there is LP now, and people who are active in other tz outside post downtime can also participate. Good stuff no? Though i know you think removing downtime advantage broke FW lol. In reality, it just broke YOUR FW, and you have been sulking every since.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#18 - 2013-04-20 15:08:51 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is no any big plan to take systems for caldari, some people / corps /alliances may have their own plans what to do.

As mechanic is what it is there is no reason to even try to take systems. Best situation for all is that one side gall/minmatar has all systems, then farmer alts have not much places to farm, other option is to make all systems vulnerable. Actual players can still make isk out of FW missions.

Only way to fight sov warfare is to farm more plexes than enemy and i am not sure if anyone want to compete on that against minmatar, it is just better to farm on their side too.

We can always base out of FW lowsec, have fun fight on some 'important' system and farm isk on minmatar side with alts, just as it is now going.



Soo, same as it always was, apart from there is LP now, and people who are active in other tz outside post downtime can also participate. Good stuff no? Though i know you think removing downtime advantage broke FW lol. In reality, it just broke YOUR FW, and you have been sulking every since.


I have never complained about removing after downtime plexing.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#19 - 2013-04-20 16:48:14 UTC
Jonasan Mikio wrote:
I mean FW is a big game of RISK (you know the board game) and I feel most of the player base completely ignores that and just uses it to "get fights".


Well... yeah... since getting fights is the whole point of FW. The problem is that nobody has the motivation to grind for sov when the enemy militia is two tiers higher and earning more than twice as much profit per plex (after converting to ISK) even after factoring in the devaluing of ships bought with LP.

Personally, I think the problem is that LP rewards are disproportionately high for plexing and too low for PvPing. The Amarr/Minmatar warzone has turned into a sad joke. Minmatar has 2000 pilots more than Amarr and it's painfully obvious that a lot of them are just LP farmers judging from the fact that the same systems hit vulnerable literally every day but never flip. Obviously abused mechanic is obvious?
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-04-20 17:59:16 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Jonasan Mikio wrote:
I mean FW is a big game of RISK (you know the board game) and I feel most of the player base completely ignores that and just uses it to "get fights".


Well... yeah... since getting fights is the whole point of FW. The problem is that nobody has the motivation to grind for sov when the enemy militia is two tiers higher and earning more than twice as much profit per plex (after converting to ISK) even after factoring in the devaluing of ships bought with LP.

Personally, I think the problem is that LP rewards are disproportionately high for plexing and too low for PvPing. The Amarr/Minmatar warzone has turned into a sad joke. Minmatar has 2000 pilots more than Amarr and it's painfully obvious that a lot of them are just LP farmers judging from the fact that the same systems hit vulnerable literally every day but never flip. Obviously abused mechanic is obvious?



The true LP farmers dont plex but mass run missions, two bombers can earn 350-400k LP an hour along with 20million isk in mission pay.

There probably is even a better way that I dont know about, I have seen one guy quad boxing Machs, that takes some balls though
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