EVE General Discussion

This thread isn't about PVE content. No idea why some people feel the need to discuss PVE in here.

This thread is about the perceived and evident discrepancy between expansion output and reputed dev manpower, and why the last expansions were mostly about fixing already existing game mechanics, changing some stats in the database, and some paintjobs, instead of adding new gameplay features increasing the complexity of Eve and giving players new venues to interact with each other, like former expansions did.

Anyone who isn't a deluded fanboy must have come to the conclusion that either CCP put Eve on minimum effort/low maintenance mode or that Eve devs are amazingly unproductive.

Nobody gives a damn about PVE or your obsession with WoW.

Tough question to answer. All the devs I have talked to seem like creative, hard working, and very talented people. The other MMO I have played is EQ. I haven't logged on there in a year or more just because the world is not as dynamic as it could be and as interesting as the static content is the story isn't compelling enough to hold my attention indefinitely.

The EQ expansions did have a more complete and finished feel to them than Eve expansions. But as someone else said "apples and oranges." The EQ xpacs are paid for and Eve's are included. Also EQ is a closed system and so the expansions cover a very specific area, the work load to create them is easier to manage and to develop a production schedule for. Whereas I bet the Eve updates are forced to deal with a lot of little fires as they start poking about into older code.

As for newer Eve expansions directly compared to newer ones; the re-balancing and new ships over the past year must have taken several metric tons of work and sweat and screaming and falling asleep in ones chair after work because too tired to do anything else. It just seems like a lot of fiddle little code and details, that sort of thing just takes time. As compared to creating new content which has its own set of issues but at least you are building some of it from scratch and only have to splice the seams together.

Would I like to see new "content"? Damn skippy; I want a whole line of ORE ships from EWAR and Logi to defense, all with less optimal but more versatile fitting options than the big 4. Also a reworked DST and more variation in the economy. The real world has been subject to some very serious events over the decades, I think Eve would benefit from a more real economic model.

But really Eve xpacs kick ass, especially the new combat dynamic created by the recent rebalancing.

*guess i fall into the "deluded fanboy" crowd...oh well.

There's a fundamental difference. With each expansion Blizzard rolled out, old content became obsolete. Up until very recently, each expansion effectively killed off a previous set of raids and content, because nobody would run those instances when the goal was to plow to max level. All that content was effectively dead. WoW would switch old for new, but the concurrently active content in rotation never increased. Later on they began to fix this, but...

They also would "revamp" each class with each expansions. While there were some overarching themes, many classes would feel drastically different with each expansions, and some strategies would be obsoleted and replaced. I doubt any of you remember this, but back in the early days of WoW a PvPer named Otherguy made a name for himself using a hybrid arcane/fire Mage talent spec that focused on scorch spam and mobility. Battlegrounds actually saw the occassionally "elementalist" spec which split between ice and fire to unload maximum long range AoE damage. Essentially a siege spec. Arcane was only used for the "3 minute mage" PoM Pyro spec. Ice was always good, and was in fact the "core" PvE spec due to fire resistant enemies in Molten Core.

Fast forward a couple expansions. Arcane mages are now a top spec(or were when I last played), having more or less replaced high mobility fire specs with arcane blast. Frost was in many ways the dominant PvP spec for ages due to it's great control, ice block, and on-demand burst due to freeze combos. Pure AoE specs dissappeared, with "elementalist" specs being more of a PvE dps build. Oh, and frost has a friggen pet now. My point is that with each expansions old content, even old specs and playstyles would die off, and effectively cease to exist.

Now look at Eve. Old content and playstyles are still there, and quite viable. A few things have disappeared due to minor power creep. The Taranis isn't really on the radar as a good solo PvP ship anymore, and the Rifter has fallen from grace, but you can still fly them, and get fights. I am flooded with new PvP options, but when I want to fly what *I* want, my old Rifter and Firetail have ALWAYS been viable.

Say what you will about Eve's low content rate, but the fact that Eve expansions actually ADD options, and increase content without replacing old content blows WoW out of the water. With WoW, they just keep throwing stuff at the game, adding tons and tons of things(Pokemon!) and "new" raids which are in almost all cases the same mechanics as the raids back in BURNING CRUSADE, give or take a few high points(the "Ikaruga" boss). Eve's design philosophy may not have as much content as WoW, but goddamnit they make up for it in elegance and intelligent design. They make it work because they build upon their existing content with each layer. No other dev can claim that.

And you'll be on the dev team
Rise and Fozzie's Awesome Team Great Job!!

Is this thread about CCP Guard?

Oh yes, lets follow the wow way of doing expansions:

Vanilla to The burning Crusade - dumbing down and ruining PVP
The Burning Crusade - Wrath - More dumbing down and the addition of ultra grindy heroics and achievements
Wrath to Cataclysm - GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND and even worse heroics, not even bothering to add differences
Cataclysm to Mists - GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND and pokemon

Not a good example imho

Where is this game of yours then?

Anyway, because you don't seem to remember all the stuff that was in the last expansion, read the patch notes and realize you ******** your posts are: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-retribution-1

so with the ammount of good it did...you took these vital individuals away...to go back to the same old way of doing things that didn't work. briliant.

Hi,

please let's not forget that:

1) CCP is developping 3 Games: EVE, DUST514, World of Darkness
2) As with any MMO, a good part of the CCP employees are not devs but community managers.
3) CCP is an Indy dev. They are not relying on EA, Ubisoft and the likes to do their marketing.
4) For some expansions, work is focused on things that are less apparent.
5) Smaller teams have less communication to do between people. They can get decisions made quicker.
6) CCP most likely has more lines of code that may have to be rechecked when something went wrong (aka bugfixing).
7) EVE had more than 120 ships 2 years ago. So rebalancing is probably not that easy, considering that there are quite a lot of modules, implants, rigs that we players can use with those ships. Oh, and leadership skills, ganglinks and other remote effects.
8) CCP is awesome.

:CCP focusses on new content over updates:
"waaah, iteration before you bring in new stuff!!!!"
:CCP focuses on iteration for a bit:
"waaah, need new content!!!!"


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.