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Why is Gist large/x-large shield booster so much better than Pith ?
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Katsami
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#41 - 2013-04-15 17:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsami
Malcanis wrote:
DeLindsay wrote:
Quote:
I should clarify; why does a Gist A sell for 900 mill and drops from Angels rally point while the Pith A sells for 175 mill and drops from a Guristas rally point. Same slot and fitting, swap missiles for lasers, kinetic for EM and they're the same thing, except one is worth 6 times more because it is that much better than the other via double capacitor need for an extra 160 shields.


I don't think you fully comprehend just how BAD the cap drain difference is. The sole reason the Gist X-Type is so damn exp is it has CONSIDERABLY less cap drain, and let me tell you these things suck your cap dry fast. Nearly every player who runs a XL Booster has to ALSO fit a Cap Booster taking another valuable slot. So, if you can afford the Gist, you get to "maybe" save 1 slot from getting the Cap Booster. If you don't have the ISK, then choose Pith and you WILL be using a Cap Booster (unless a 2 minute cap is ok with you even with 3-T2 Cap Safeguard Rigs). THIS is the reason for the price difference, it has NOTHING to do with one booster pushing out XXX more Shield HP per boost.

And you also fail to realize just how much a difference "only 200 HP/cycle" can be when a person is running full HG Crystals and receiving the Shield gang mod boost from a person with the T2 Siege Imp in their head. It turns that kinda meh shield booster into a goddamn monster of a tank.


I used to have this problem but then I found out that you can switch the booster off for a while


This is what I don't understand about this argument.

Vargur:

2 Shadow Serpentis TCs
1 Adaptive Invulnerability Field
1 Specific Hardener
1 100MN R.Fleet AB
1 Pith-A XL SB

For rigs I roll a Burst Aerator II, and a Semiconductor Memory Cell

I have 3m40s of cap.

I have no cap issues in ANY missions, including Evolution.

Hell, Marauders are the best platform for rolling Cap Boosters due to cargo space, and they are still completely unnecessarily.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#42 - 2013-04-15 17:10:32 UTC
Quote:
This is what I don't understand about this argument.

On a Vargur I run 2 TCs, 1 Adaptive / 1 Specific Hardener, an AB, and a Pith XL.

For rigs I roll a Burst Aerator II, and a Semiconductor Memory Cell

I have no cap issues in ANY missions, including Evolution.


I also run a Pith XL with (2) Hardners and a full bank of Blasters, with little cap issues but I still have to fit a Cap Booster for those times when I get neuted or for that short period when dps is very high, until my Sentries kill enough that I can safely cycle the booster (like AE bonus room). I could fly without it but it's that safety net, and I have max skills. For those who aren't maxed on skills or refuse/can't afford to use T2 Rigs/good Imps like Crystals then the cap drain -vs- shield boost on the Piths are hard for them to handle. Besides there's gotta be something like 90% of mission runners who swear by being cap stable in EVERY fit (check BC to see how many fits are "and it's cap stable") when they don't really need to be, and they NEVER will be if using a Pith booster, which is it's drawback.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-04-15 17:13:07 UTC
XL ASB is cruise control for cool Roll

I should buy an Ishtar.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-04-17 11:59:04 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Steve Spooner wrote:
I am aware of this and I am asking why was it created this way? Double cap cost for an extra ~200 in shield repairs hardly seems effective in comparison.


Well, it's the pattern of all the Gist/Pith boosters all the way up and down. Pith is always better for burst tank, Gist is always better for sustained tank. So depending on what you're looking for, one might be better than another.

Like I said, this pattern means that Gist looks better on the larger boosters while Pith looks better for smaller ones. They're all useful under the right circumstances of course. So, hey, variety. At least there's a difference between them, unlike Corpus and Centus.


This, Pith on faction snowflake frigates/cruisers/Tengus/Lokis and Gist everything above because they have enough buffer (usually)

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#45 - 2013-04-18 14:39:36 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
If a meaningful number of pvp players could afford to fit faction boosters then you'd probably see more parity between the two, since the pith ones are ideal for pvp (unless you're using an ASB instead).


Well, no. If the price dropped enough for the module to become cost-effective for PvP purposes then players would fit them to their PvP ships.

No they would not.

To clarify,

In PVE you need to sustain your tank much longer from a lower more constant incoming DPS. the X-large Gist suits this better as it offers a little less boost but uses much less cap, it can be run much longer before cap goes dry.

In PVP fights are over much faster. focus fire from much stronger ships, combined with high use of nuets, cap stability. or cap conservation, means very little. You do not need to run the module for 3-4 minutes, the fight is over in 1 minute. low cap use means nothing as nuets drain you very fast anyway. In this situation a higher burst tank is much better even if its cap costs are higher. The X-large Pith would be a much better module for PVP not matter what the price difference.

The only reason the X-large Gist modules are so much more isk than the X-large Pith modules is that it is much more common to use modules worth hundreds of millions of isk in PVE,Some popular PVE modules are even billions of isk. While is is rare to use them in PVP. thus the Gist(PVE) are in higher demand. As the Pith(PVP) are not used due to the high chance of being destroyed.

In PVE you ship does not get destroyed unless you screw up.

In PVP the best, highest value ships often get targeted first. If you equip a DED module for PVP, you have a much high chance of being primaried. It is just a waste of isk.

The supply for both modules is about the same, but the demand for DED PVP modules is much lower than the demand for DED PVE modules. Supply and demand is why there is such a big price difference. If they were the same price the Gist would always be chosen for PVE while the Pith would always be chosen for PVP.

This even explains why the price goes the other way for the smaller modules. Most PVE mission runners use battleships or T3 cruisers. they do not use the small modules, while in small scale PVP these DED modules can make a huge difference and are worth the isk. For small scale combat the demand shifts the other way. At cruiser level there is low demand for PVE modules, But a very high demand for PVP modules. Thus the price difference favors the more popular modules. In the case of smaller ships the PVP(Pith) over the PVE(Gist).
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-04-19 18:59:59 UTC
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Maybe the OP should move to a different part of the galaxy and try to supply the demand for gist boosters instead of whining that what he has in his backyard isn;t good enough,



or hold on to the item(s) he gets. Market will probably swing back to the era of pith. Maybe not soon, but at some point lol. Way the markets work. I have a smallish stash of gist gear. From the old days when Pith was the be all end all and gist dirt cheap because of it. I could not spare the isk for pith...so gist it was. Better cap use was jsut icing on the cake really.

Rest of this...man be happy with what he got I say. You can build up indices to get tis pve content for more chances at better drops. Had this weird Idea to blow money on officer gear because jsut bored. Oddly enough you can find some o-gear cheaper than gist or pth lol. OP feels shafted...imagine the guy getting these once in a blue moon officer spawns and the drop is "crap" isk. I feel more for the latter tbh. 1.5 years in 0.0...only found 1 officer spawn. And I was happy about it, I know bitter vets who have still not broke that officer cherry.
Aplier Shivra
#47 - 2013-04-21 07:54:37 UTC
The point has been pretty well explained already, with the pve cap stable vs. pvp burst tank, etc. I just feel like throwing in my 0.02isk worth.
Fitting a sub-capital ship with over 10k ehp/sec omnitank while remaining cap stable and pumping out normal dps is just plain fun. Not that it would ever happen on any reasonable player's budget, but it is possible (I think the highest I got was 15k ehp/sec and 700 dps out of a Tengu in my EFT, although a more reasonable budget of 1.5b would still give you 2k ehp/sec and 500-700 dps using T1 or T2 ammo respectively). When it comes to ehp/cap, gist shield boosters are leaps and bounds above everything else. And if you want to match the output of a pith you can just put in the shield booster speed rig or two, and still have a much easier time of cap stability than a pith user using those rig slots for CCCs. But if you're using armor reppers, even on a ship with a bonus for them or resists, there's just no way to come close to the ehp/cap of a gist shield booster even when sacrificing all low slots for tank.
A while ago I had to raise my standings with minmatar from slightly negative to trying to do level 3's-4's, so I splurged and bought a small gist shield booster for my imperial navy Slicer. Sure it was expensive, and still not quite cap stable, but it made the grind infinitely more fun and interactive (5 low slots for dps, still fitting an MWD/AB, being able to rep at the first sign of damage instead of having to wait until shields ran out). Overnight my Slicer changed from doing pretty good but still having to be a bit careful into a level 2 mission god, all thanks to the gist shield booster. Whether this was actually due to the massive amount of power and insaneness that is Gist shield boosters, or simply the placebo effect giving me a newfound confidence I will never know, but the fact remains that to me, the Gist class shield boosters are the single best "bang for your buck" upgrade out of any deadspace module.
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