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BREAKING: Boston Marathon rocked

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Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#241 - 2013-04-19 17:22:28 UTC
Yeah I saw that. And reports that he has a newborn baby or his wife is pregnant.

Poor guy. Too young for a start.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#242 - 2013-04-19 17:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Well, they have managed to make it obvious how willingly Americans are to sacrifice those freedoms and take an entire city into lockdown mode. That's already here.....and now proven as do-able.

Sadly true - but not yet irreversable.



In my 48 years, I have yet to see any genie go back into the bottle. Not once.
If this were a genie, I'd agree.
What's required is simply a President more interested in legacy than popularity (yes, we have had some of these) or some other charismatic public figure who can actually get people to ape his or her pronouncements who is more libertarian in bent than not. And I *know* you can name a couple of those.

I don't like libertarianism as a general philosophy - it's too naive. But there are some aspects with which I agree.
I will agree that the odds of it happening are pretty damn low - But I have an idealistic and optimistic streak to go with my pragmatism - Not giving up on hope until it's mind-ripped from my brain by the Thought Police. P

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#243 - 2013-04-19 17:24:46 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
Sean Collier of Somerville, Massachusetts is confirmed to be the MIT officer fatally shot by the suspects of the bombing. He was 26-years-old.

Greater love hath no man...
Being an officer of the law can be every bit as dangerous as being a soldier - maybe more so.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2013-04-19 17:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Graygor
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


Well, they have managed to make it obvious how willingly Americans are to sacrifice those freedoms and take an entire city into lockdown mode. That's already here.....and now proven as do-able.

Sadly true - but not yet irreversable.



In my 48 years, I have yet to see any genie go back into the bottle. Not once.


Depends on your thinking. But Communism is effectively dead. Thats been a massive rollback.

Go back in time to 1983 and tell someone that in 2013 Russia would be an Oligarchy with some of the worlds richest billionaires and China would be the worlds most dynamic and 2nd largest economy and they'd have laughed at you or had you committed.

The genie might not go back, but he might wither or fade away.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
Alara IonStorm
#245 - 2013-04-19 17:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Well, they have managed to make it obvious how willingly Americans are to sacrifice those freedoms and take an entire city into lockdown mode. That's already here.....and now proven as do-able.

People are okay with having the resources to put a city on lock down, and okay with the Government doing it.

Keep a city on lock down for a long time or kick in Joe Sixpack or Granny Wonderful's door and you watch how fast that changes. Turn it on the ordinary and make it visible and things become a whole new ball game.

What American's are losing is paper freedoms, things that say the government can do this but if they ever publicly misused it... Things would not go well.

Graygor wrote:

Depends on your thinking. But Communism is effectively dead. Thats been a massive rollback.

Go back in time to 1983 and tell someone that in 2013 Russia would be an Oligarchy with some of the worlds richest billionaires and China would be the worlds most dynamic and 2nd largest economy and they'd have laughed at you or had you committed.

Tell someone in the 1950's that Communist idea's can talked about openly without being dragged before the Committee of Un-American Activities.

Most ironic name ever BTW.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#246 - 2013-04-19 17:35:14 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Graygor wrote:

Keep calm and carry on.

As at the end of the day, panic, fear, and paranoia will do far more damage than any home made bomb or shooting ever could.

Amen, brother.


Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What I find strange, is that the authorities were actually chasing these guys in their car, even had explosives thrown at them, the younger guy even runs over his own brother with the car.......and then the police lost track of him ?

Were there seriously 'not enough eyes' on the scene at that time ?

That's kinda clumsy tbh, especially considering the level of security presence.

Not particularly offended that this happened - someone following the chase to the scene reported a 'half dozen' cars - that's maybe 12 officers? They're recieving hot fire, and explosions are going off. Other officers were close behind, but they had to get oriented to the action, determine where their fellows were, and where the bad guys were, before they could deploy to isiolate and contain.
Not at all hard to see how the second suspect could've broken contact in that.
The smaller the unit, the better the unit coordination, thus the faster the reaction.

The alternative is to 'mob-on' and that risks a LOT of unnecessary casualties whilst the suspect may still manage to break contact. Not a good choice...



But there is not much to 'evaluate and analyze' when the perpetrator takes off again suddenly in the car. Could no one follow ? Really ? I'm just having a real hard time with this aspect of the situation.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2013-04-19 17:37:52 UTC
I'm willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt if there were indeed explosives used etc.

My question is, where was the police chopper?

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#248 - 2013-04-19 17:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Graygor wrote:
I'm willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt if there were indeed explosives used etc.

My question is, where was the police chopper?



Well, this exactly.


Tin Foil Hat: Event is thus 'extended' to see if a "Lockdown Experiment" would actually work. (They needed an excuse).

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#249 - 2013-04-19 17:42:10 UTC
Graygor wrote:
I'm willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt if there were indeed explosives used etc.

My question is, where was the police chopper?

From the amature video of the firefight, looks like it hadn't found the scene before the fight was over. You know yourself how difficult it can be to coordinate aerial support... Especially on a suddenly-developing situation.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#250 - 2013-04-19 17:45:32 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Graygor wrote:
I'm willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt if there were indeed explosives used etc.

My question is, where was the police chopper?

From the amature video of the firefight, looks like it hadn't found the scene before the fight was over. You know yourself how difficult it can be to coordinate aerial support... Especially on a suddenly-developing situation.



Well then that's sloppy police work most indeed. The seemingly nightly "Police Helicopter Maneuvers" sure seem well coordinated here in Tampa, FL. They certainly get daily practice. This was the case in Houston, TX when I lived there as well.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-04-19 17:45:45 UTC
Im not reading much tinfoil in this.

It could be a legit reason. We dont know how long it would have taken to scramble the chopper / crew readyness. They dont keep them airborne all the time after all. Could have been a shooting, not an APB, cant scramble the chopper for every single shooting.

I have no idea how big Boston PDs air wing is, but I dont think there is tin foil going on here.

Hindsight is always 20/20. It really could have been a case that when the police called in back up it was too late for the chopper to arrive.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#252 - 2013-04-19 17:45:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


But there is not much to 'evaluate and analyze' when the perpetrator takes off again suddenly in the car. Could no one follow ? Really ? I'm just having a real hard time with this aspect of the situation.
I'm sure they could follow - once they'd gotten back in their cars, and gotten the cars untanlged, and assured tehmselves that there were no more exploding surprises awaiting them... It's night, it's not a movie, and it's not choreographed, and situational awareness is the first casualty of a firefight.

I can totally see the scene playing out in my mind... And am in no way surprised.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#253 - 2013-04-19 17:47:44 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Graygor wrote:
I'm willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt if there were indeed explosives used etc.

My question is, where was the police chopper?

From the amature video of the firefight, looks like it hadn't found the scene before the fight was over. You know yourself how difficult it can be to coordinate aerial support... Especially on a suddenly-developing situation.



Well then that's sloppy police work most indeed. The seemingly nightly "Police Helicopter Maneuvers" sure seem well coordinated here in Tampa, FL. They certainly get daily practice. This was the case in Houston, TX when I lived there as well.

No. I absolutely reject that this was a case of 'sloppy'. Give Tampa a similar case of multiple agencies, multiple helocopters which need to de-conlfict each other, and a running gunfight involving explosives, and you'll see similar problems in coordination.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#254 - 2013-04-19 17:52:20 UTC
Graygor wrote:
Im not reading much tinfoil in this.

It could be a legit reason. We dont know how long it would have taken to scramble the chopper / crew readyness.



I'm just not buying it. The aerial support have had days and days to "be at the ready".

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2013-04-19 17:57:52 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Graygor wrote:
Im not reading much tinfoil in this.

It could be a legit reason. We dont know how long it would have taken to scramble the chopper / crew readyness.



I'm just not buying it. The aerial support have had days and days to "be at the ready".


Yes, but you cant stay airborne all the time. You have to stand down, change crews, refuel and maintenance. If Bostons wing is 1 chopper that leaves gaps. More likely it is 3+ but when you have police and FBI having manhood measuring contests and inter agency arguments and are frankly running around like a fly with a blue arse its hard to have perfect coordination.

Mistakes can, do and will happen.

If there is a more nefarious reasoning behind this, whoever ordered it better pray to god that another life isnt lost before the suspect is apprehended as if the truth is revealed whoever gave the order is going to have their arse in a sling.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#256 - 2013-04-19 17:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Graygor wrote:
Im not reading much tinfoil in this.

It could be a legit reason. We dont know how long it would have taken to scramble the chopper / crew readyness.



I'm just not buying it. The aerial support have had days and days to "be at the ready".

Being 'at the ready' is not the same as omniscient or omnipitent. Helocopter isn't magic - it has to obey physics and human requirements the same as any other vehicle. They're very powerful force-multipliers, but they still need to be oriented, de-conflicted, and travel to wherever the action is, unless they're miraculously right on top if it when things start 'going down.'

At night, in the dark, that's NOT an easy task. They're technology, not magic.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#257 - 2013-04-19 18:02:36 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Graygor wrote:
Im not reading much tinfoil in this.

It could be a legit reason. We dont know how long it would have taken to scramble the chopper / crew readyness.



I'm just not buying it. The aerial support have had days and days to "be at the ready".

Being 'at the ready' is not the same as omniscient or omnipitent. Helocopter isn't magic - it has to obey physics and human requirements the same as any other vehicle. They're very powerful force-multipliers, but they still need to be oriented, de-conflicted, and travel to wherever the action is, unless they're miraculously right on top if it when things start 'going down.'

At night, in the dark, that's NOT an easy task. They're technology, not magic.



As stated in my post above, most of the aerial exercises I witness are at night. Exclusively. It's practically a given.

Obviously, these guys are not fully prepared for some reason, which I find strange. And strange that not one of the dozen officers had enough of a handle on the situation that a pursuit was not initiated.

This is all really hard to justify, and I'm finding it more and more suspicious.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#258 - 2013-04-19 18:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Graygor
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
As stated in my post above, most of the aerial exercises I witness are at night. Exclusively. It's practically a given.

Obviously, these guys are not fully prepared for some reason, which I find strange. And strange that not one of the dozen officers had enough of a handle on the situation that a pursuit was not initiated.

This is all really hard to justify, and I'm finding it more and more suspicious.


I'm going to base this here for an air force take off of a 3 man chopper crew.

Expected time from alarm to take off is around 9 minutes.

1. Crew on standby.

2. Alarm sounds.

3. Time to run from waiting room to chopper. - 2 minutes

4. Crew reports to stations and board. - 1 minute.

5. Preflight checks. - 3 minutes

6. Control tower clearance. - 1 miunte.

7. Take off to desired altitude 1/2 minutes.

8. Expected time to target - indeterminate.

Thats 9 minutes from the call being placed to just getting airborne. Yes, they can be on standby at their chopper. But theyre human, not machines. They need to take a pee, drink / eat, stretch their legs.

The above is the expect take off time for a well drilled air force team, a police team might take longer.

9 minutes is a long time in a car chase. Think how far you could go in 9 minutes if you floored it on rather empty roads at night. If it is true he made it to Connecticut he could be anywhere now.

Edit

More about the suspect released here.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#259 - 2013-04-19 18:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Graygor wrote:
Im not reading much tinfoil in this.

It could be a legit reason. We dont know how long it would have taken to scramble the chopper / crew readyness.



I'm just not buying it. The aerial support have had days and days to "be at the ready".

Being 'at the ready' is not the same as omniscient or omnipitent. Helocopter isn't magic - it has to obey physics and human requirements the same as any other vehicle. They're very powerful force-multipliers, but they still need to be oriented, de-conflicted, and travel to wherever the action is, unless they're miraculously right on top if it when things start 'going down.'

At night, in the dark, that's NOT an easy task. They're technology, not magic.



As stated in my post above, most of the aerial exercises I witness are at night. Exclusively. It's practically a given.

Obviously, these guys are not fully prepared for some reason, which I find strange. And strange that not one of the dozen officers had enough of a handle on the situation that a pursuit was not initiated.

This is all really hard to justify, and I'm finding it more and more suspicious.
Still not buying your suspicions - you're still treating choppers as if they were magic.

Of course they drill at night - that's the hardest time possible to do what they do. Tell me - Did you ever run across a drill as hard as the real thing? SEAL teams and similar SpecOp forces may train harder than they fight - but they're about the only kinds of forces in the wolrd that can afford to train like that. When you're doing a drill, you already know the objective, and the rough time, and rough area where the objective will be found.
So which of those advantages did the choppers have last night? That's right - none of them.

Now - tell me - How successful are those drills that are being conducted? That's right - you have no idea.

Now, how many of those drills are being conducted over an entire municiple area with 'round the clock demands on aircrew? How many are being conducted with multiple aircraft that have to be de-conlficed? From multiple agencies? That have to coordinate not only with their own police forces, but with multiple other agencies? You don't know that, either.

This isn't a Airwolf, it's isn't CSI, and it isn't Blue Thunder, either. It's the real world where real world considerations are always in-play.


Edit:
Also; the bad guy gets a vote, too - and he doesn't want you to succeed. That's why he's called the bad guy. The good guys aren't magic, and they don't always win, even when they do their job exactly right.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2013-04-19 18:26:02 UTC
Sad Texas update

Quote:
Sixty people still unaccounted for after deadly fire and huge explosion at fertilizer plant in U.S. state of Texas.


Also watching footage now of the national guard.

All I have to say is this.... when the hell did the American soldier get so.... big? Shocked Theres quite a number of double chins among them.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate