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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bounty System in Eve : A Joke ?
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Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#81 - 2013-04-19 13:50:24 UTC
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:

Fell free to put how much bounty you want in this char, it will be destroyed after a while and you will never get this money back.


You have no idea how the bounty system works yet you keep blabbering about it with authority.

Pretty much the textbook definition of idiocy.



Fell free to ask me anything about that and prove that I dont know.
**** talk...


Why ask? From:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73446

"Bounty pools are eliminated and a portion returned to those that contributed to the pool if the target has been inactive (unsubscribed) for a long time."

If biomassed and inactive a long time, the isk is also returned.
Andrea Griffin
#82 - 2013-04-19 13:57:07 UTC
I just wish I could turn off the big red WANTED letters on everyone's portrait. They annoy me.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2013-04-19 14:03:14 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
I just wish I could turn off the big red WANTED letters on everyone's portrait. They annoy me.


That i can agree with.

I would like to see wanted signs on people with bounties higher than 500mil for example.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Singeabooty Raj
Doomheim
#84 - 2013-04-19 14:21:22 UTC
Paladin Amarr wrote:
rswfire wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
rswfire wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
First, my proposal is not to have access to the exact system CCP uses to calculate bounties, I want everobody to know it and have access to it !!!
Since looks nobody knows for sure.


Why?

What's so wrong with proprietary algorithms?

They're...rather common in business.


If they implement something that allow you to spend money in bounty, so they should show exactly whaty calculations will be made with your money. Besides, bounty hunters should know also exactly what numbers they need to use in order to take decision of atack or not atack. Its an calculation that should be clear to everyone, and nobody knows, almost everibody claims to know but know nothing.
And, the worse, what they put for the public is diferent then what happens in the game.


I agree with what you just said.

I've run tests on this and the data is conflicting. Some ships pay out more than others, even when those ships are worth far less. The same ships, killed by the same pilot, don't always pay the same amount. It does not pay 20% by any stretch, as is most commonly believed. It's really not that difficult to prove those specific points.

I think as it is right now, most pilots don't use bounties as incentive to attack someone. They use other criteria and view bounty payouts as an added bonus. If your main point is that bounty hunting isn't a viable career in Eve with the way the bounty system works right now, despite it being advertised as a glorious new path in Retribution, then I'd probably agree with that too.


Yep, and also, I think its an good time to suggest improovements, like the one about high security status, I think it will be nice since peaple are concearn about scammer and other about cheaters. What do you think ?

I think you should return to Azeroth and give your Panda a cuddle. No scammers or bounties in that magical realm.

Black Man with Goggles
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-04-19 16:33:27 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Oh hey this thread is still going...

OP, let me tell you how the bounty system is working perfectly. Suppose I have a 100 million ISK bounty on my head, and I am flying a Cruiser worth 40 million. Now suppose I engage Shafluffers in a glorious combat and he destroyse my vessel with his superior ship for the job. The total loss of my ship was 40 million, and my bounty was 100 million, so Mr. Fluffers recieves 8 million ISK, or 20% of my ship loss. Now if he were in a fleet with one other player, then they would each receive 4 million. 8 million ISK has been drained from my bounty, good fights were had, and the winner leaves with a nice extra bit of cash.

20% of ship loss = bounty payout. If you are in a fleet then it is evenly distributed amongst the members.

Now, if the 20% of the ship loss is greater than the bounty on a player's head, then the whole bounty pool will be payed out. Say I am flying a 300 million ISK Battleship, but my bounty is 15 million ISK. 20% of 300 is 60, but since I only have 15 million in my bounty pool, that is all that is payed out, and I no longer have a bounty.

What you seem to be advocating is that by placing bounties on high security status scammers, their security status is lowered. While you have noble intentions, there is no way that system would not be abused. Even if you have a bounty limit to high security status players, you could simply add it in increments. EVE has no way of sorting out the highsec scammers from your so called "honourable players that have done nothing wrong." EVE is heralded for being a cold, harsh, and unforgiving game where anything goes, and scamming, stealing, and murdering is encouraged.

Another thing you stated earlier is that cheaters (botters, in your mind) use the bounty system to "shut up the cheater hunters." In what way does that happen? Do the "cheater hunters" suddenly cower in fear of their sudden bounty and never speak do the so called "cheater," for fear of repercussions? No, they continue about their daily EVE lives and broadcast their findings of "cheaters" because the bounty has not affected them in any way, except smearing a red WANTED sign across their portrait.

EVE is harsh, and if you think a bounty is enough to make you leave the game then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. Thank you for trying it out and maybe spreading it to other people who may enjoy it.

Just some words I thought I'd drop before the lock falls.



WRONG


Point out where he is wrong...



Read the intire post. The bounty system IS NOT :

20% of ship loss = bounty payout. If you are in a fleet then it is evenly distributed amongst the members.

This is what CCCP says, but its not what happens today.
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2013-04-19 16:43:30 UTC
Quote:
What you seem to be advocating is that by placing bounties on high security status scammers, their security status is lowered. While you have noble intentions, there is no way that system would not be abused. Even if you have a bounty limit to high security status players, you could simply add it in increments. EVE has no way of sorting out the highsec scammers from your so called "honourable players that have done nothing wrong." EVE is heralded for being a cold, harsh, and unforgiving game where anything goes, and scamming, stealing, and murdering is encouraged.

Another thing you stated earlier is that cheaters (botters, in your mind) use the bounty system to "shut up the cheater hunters." In what way does that happen? Do the "cheater hunters" suddenly cower in fear of their sudden bounty and never speak do the so called "cheater," for fear of repercussions? No, they continue about their daily EVE lives and broadcast their findings of "cheaters" because the bounty has not affected them in any way, except smearing a red WANTED sign across their portrait.

EVE is harsh, and if you think a bounty is enough to make you leave the game then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. Thank you for trying it out and maybe spreading it to other people who may enjoy it.

Just some words I thought I'd drop before the lock falls.


Again :
Player1 wants to put bounty in Player2, and Player2 is high sec.
Player1 will lower down the sec Status of Player2 only one time dosent mather how much times and bounties he tries to put.
Also, the sec Status get lowered to 0, it will not decreised anymore, it will stops in 0.
Can you tell me please what is the problem in this ?

About the cheater hunters, yes, he stops to do this job just because of his 500M bounty the cheaters put in his head.

Any more questions ?
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-04-19 16:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Oh hey this thread is still going...

OP, let me tell you how the bounty system is working perfectly. Suppose I have a 100 million ISK bounty on my head, and I am flying a Cruiser worth 40 million. Now suppose I engage Shafluffers in a glorious combat and he destroyse my vessel with his superior ship for the job. The total loss of my ship was 40 million, and my bounty was 100 million, so Mr. Fluffers recieves 8 million ISK, or 20% of my ship loss. Now if he were in a fleet with one other player, then they would each receive 4 million. 8 million ISK has been drained from my bounty, good fights were had, and the winner leaves with a nice extra bit of cash.

20% of ship loss = bounty payout. If you are in a fleet then it is evenly distributed amongst the members.

Now, if the 20% of the ship loss is greater than the bounty on a player's head, then the whole bounty pool will be payed out. Say I am flying a 300 million ISK Battleship, but my bounty is 15 million ISK. 20% of 300 is 60, but since I only have 15 million in my bounty pool, that is all that is payed out, and I no longer have a bounty.

What you seem to be advocating is that by placing bounties on high security status scammers, their security status is lowered. While you have noble intentions, there is no way that system would not be abused. Even if you have a bounty limit to high security status players, you could simply add it in increments. EVE has no way of sorting out the highsec scammers from your so called "honourable players that have done nothing wrong." EVE is heralded for being a cold, harsh, and unforgiving game where anything goes, and scamming, stealing, and murdering is encouraged.

Another thing you stated earlier is that cheaters (botters, in your mind) use the bounty system to "shut up the cheater hunters." In what way does that happen? Do the "cheater hunters" suddenly cower in fear of their sudden bounty and never speak do the so called "cheater," for fear of repercussions? No, they continue about their daily EVE lives and broadcast their findings of "cheaters" because the bounty has not affected them in any way, except smearing a red WANTED sign across their portrait.

EVE is harsh, and if you think a bounty is enough to make you leave the game then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. Thank you for trying it out and maybe spreading it to other people who may enjoy it.

Just some words I thought I'd drop before the lock falls.



WRONG


Point out where he is wrong...



Read the intire post. The bounty system IS NOT :

20% of ship loss = bounty payout. If you are in a fleet then it is evenly distributed amongst the members.

This is what CCCP says, but its not what happens today.


It does... I know since I kill alot of people.

This is in a fleet between 2 people.. me and my alt.

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.03 16:04

For your termination of Athena Syne we have paid you 16,606,114.86 ISK from their bounty pool.

And my alt.

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.03 16:04

For your termination of Athena Syne we have paid you 16,606,114.86 ISK from their bounty pool.

Exactly the same split evenly.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2013-04-19 16:51:24 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:

Fell free to put how much bounty you want in this char, it will be destroyed after a while and you will never get this money back.


You have no idea how the bounty system works yet you keep blabbering about it with authority.

Pretty much the textbook definition of idiocy.



Fell free to ask me anything about that and prove that I dont know.
**** talk...


Why ask? From:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73446

"Bounty pools are eliminated and a portion returned to those that contributed to the pool if the target has been inactive (unsubscribed) for a long time."

If biomassed and inactive a long time, the isk is also returned.


If you dont know how to read, please use google to speak to you.
The bounty system in the game is diferent from what CCP says in the forum, this is what all this topic is about.
Please read the intire post before posting stupid declarations
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-04-19 16:53:22 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Oh hey this thread is still going...

OP, let me tell you how the bounty system is working perfectly. Suppose I have a 100 million ISK bounty on my head, and I am flying a Cruiser worth 40 million. Now suppose I engage Shafluffers in a glorious combat and he destroyse my vessel with his superior ship for the job. The total loss of my ship was 40 million, and my bounty was 100 million, so Mr. Fluffers recieves 8 million ISK, or 20% of my ship loss. Now if he were in a fleet with one other player, then they would each receive 4 million. 8 million ISK has been drained from my bounty, good fights were had, and the winner leaves with a nice extra bit of cash.

20% of ship loss = bounty payout. If you are in a fleet then it is evenly distributed amongst the members.

Now, if the 20% of the ship loss is greater than the bounty on a player's head, then the whole bounty pool will be payed out. Say I am flying a 300 million ISK Battleship, but my bounty is 15 million ISK. 20% of 300 is 60, but since I only have 15 million in my bounty pool, that is all that is payed out, and I no longer have a bounty.

What you seem to be advocating is that by placing bounties on high security status scammers, their security status is lowered. While you have noble intentions, there is no way that system would not be abused. Even if you have a bounty limit to high security status players, you could simply add it in increments. EVE has no way of sorting out the highsec scammers from your so called "honourable players that have done nothing wrong." EVE is heralded for being a cold, harsh, and unforgiving game where anything goes, and scamming, stealing, and murdering is encouraged.

Another thing you stated earlier is that cheaters (botters, in your mind) use the bounty system to "shut up the cheater hunters." In what way does that happen? Do the "cheater hunters" suddenly cower in fear of their sudden bounty and never speak do the so called "cheater," for fear of repercussions? No, they continue about their daily EVE lives and broadcast their findings of "cheaters" because the bounty has not affected them in any way, except smearing a red WANTED sign across their portrait.

EVE is harsh, and if you think a bounty is enough to make you leave the game then perhaps EVE isn't the game for you. Thank you for trying it out and maybe spreading it to other people who may enjoy it.

Just some words I thought I'd drop before the lock falls.



WRONG


Point out where he is wrong...



Read the intire post. The bounty system IS NOT :

20% of ship loss = bounty payout. If you are in a fleet then it is evenly distributed amongst the members.

This is what CCCP says, but its not what happens today.


It does... I know since I kill alot of people.


No, and since all your posts here was trool stuff, I am not going to talk with you again.
Read about the tests and numbers, do an test yourself, if you want to be an bether person and help.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2013-04-19 16:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
It does... I know since I kill alot of people.

This is in a fleet between 2 people.. me and my alt.

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.03 16:04

For your termination of Athena Syne we have paid you 16,606,114.86 ISK from their bounty pool.

And my alt.

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.03 16:04

For your termination of Athena Syne we have paid you 16,606,114.86 ISK from their bounty pool.

Exactly the same split evenly.

PLease tell me more how you are right and the system is wrong.

You are WRONG. I have been doing this alot longer than you. It is obvious your 1 month old ass does not know shyte.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#91 - 2013-04-19 17:01:55 UTC
First off, do you mean player or character?

If player, I create a trial account, give it isk from my main account, place a bounty on you. Your sec status drops. I repeat as often as needed as emails are easy to come by. Repeat until you hit 0 sec status. Congratulations, you are no longer allowed in mist of hi sec and your system does exactly the opposite of what you want. It creates one more way to grief players.

If based on character, it's even faster as I have 2 spare slots on thus account and can keep bionassing them after placing a bounty.

Basically, your suggestion of impacting sec status only increases the potential to grief people.

Also, if I am a nul player and hi sec griefer, it is very easy to raise my sec status. I take a bomber kill 1 battleship rat per system in a small loop and my sec status raises quickly. I can easily counter any sec status loss from bounties.

A hi sec newer player who can't run level 4 missions, on the other hand, is not so lucky. They gain less sec status per kill since they do not have easy access to the larger NPC battleship rats. Once again, without realizing it, your system favors the older nul sec player, and makes it easier to grief the newer players.

Sorry, but your idea is flawed and does the opposite of what you wish.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2013-04-19 17:03:10 UTC
Here another one...

Me and my alt. A nice even 1 mil bounty split.

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.06 17:44

For your termination of Rinth Naskingar we have paid you 500,000.00 ISK from their bounty pool.

and alt

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.06 17:44

For your termination of Rinth Naskingar we have paid you 500,000.00 ISK from their bounty pool.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2013-04-19 17:04:45 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
First off, do you mean player or character?

If player, I create a trial account, give it isk from my main account, place a bounty on you. Your sec status drops. I repeat as often as needed as emails are easy to come by. Repeat until you hit 0 sec status. Congratulations, you are no longer allowed in mist of hi sec and your system does exactly the opposite of what you want. It creates one more way to grief players.

If based on character, it's even faster as I have 2 spare slots on thus account and can keep bionassing them after placing a bounty.

Basically, your suggestion of impacting sec status only increases the potential to grief people.

Also, if I am a nul player and hi sec griefer, it is very easy to raise my sec status. I take a bomber kill 1 battleship rat per system in a small loop and my sec status raises quickly. I can easily counter any sec status loss from bounties.

A hi sec newer player who can't run level 4 missions, on the other hand, is not so lucky. They gain less sec status per kill since they do not have easy access to the larger NPC battleship rats. Once again, without realizing it, your system favors the older nul sec player, and makes it easier to grief the newer players.

Sorry, but your idea is flawed and does the opposite of what you wish.


Lady.. I think it is pointless telling him this.

He does not understand how the system works. I honestly believe he thinks he does, but most idiots do. No amount of evidence or talk is going to convince him.

We might as well stop.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Cenis Pheese
Doomheim
#94 - 2013-04-19 17:08:55 UTC
Paladin Amarr wrote:


No, and since all your posts here was trool stuff, I am not going to talk with you again.
Read about the tests and numbers, do an test yourself, if you want to be an bether person and help.


wat
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2013-04-19 17:17:54 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
First off, do you mean player or character?

If player, I create a trial account, give it isk from my main account, place a bounty on you. Your sec status drops. I repeat as often as needed as emails are easy to come by. Repeat until you hit 0 sec status. Congratulations, you are no longer allowed in mist of hi sec and your system does exactly the opposite of what you want. It creates one more way to grief players.

If based on character, it's even faster as I have 2 spare slots on thus account and can keep bionassing them after placing a bounty.

Basically, your suggestion of impacting sec status only increases the potential to grief people.

Also, if I am a nul player and hi sec griefer, it is very easy to raise my sec status. I take a bomber kill 1 battleship rat per system in a small loop and my sec status raises quickly. I can easily counter any sec status loss from bounties.

A hi sec newer player who can't run level 4 missions, on the other hand, is not so lucky. They gain less sec status per kill since they do not have easy access to the larger NPC battleship rats. Once again, without realizing it, your system favors the older nul sec player, and makes it easier to grief the newer players.

Sorry, but your idea is flawed and does the opposite of what you wish.


I am allways talking about chars...
First, you should not be allow to repeat it, you can do one time per char only.
Second, with sec status =0 you can do anything in high sec, actually when you start the game you start with sec status=0. This char or mine for example, has sec status = 0.0.
Its easy to raise the sec status, true. But for scammers, at least will be a bit harder to continue doing this.
Please comment.
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2013-04-19 17:22:54 UTC
Cenis Pheese wrote:
Paladin Amarr wrote:


No, and since all your posts here was trool stuff, I am not going to talk with you again.
Read about the tests and numbers, do an test yourself, if you want to be an bether person and help.


wat


Read the intire post, the ammount payed for the current bounty system is bugued, and the DEV are looking at it.
Its not 20% of the bounty, its not 20% of the destroyed ISK, its something about an "secret formula" that looks to be 20% of 20% of the value of the ship distroyed.

The test :
Ship destroyed : Caracal , value = 10M
The bounty : 50M
Value payed :::: 300k ( should be 2M )
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-04-19 17:31:07 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Here another one...

Me and my alt. A nice even 1 mil bounty split.

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.06 17:44

For your termination of Rinth Naskingar we have paid you 500,000.00 ISK from their bounty pool.

and alt

Bounty payment
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.04.06 17:44

For your termination of Rinth Naskingar we have paid you 500,000.00 ISK from their bounty pool.


Since you are willing to help, what was the ship, the server, the ISK destroyed ?
If you calculate it in the normal server, its currently broken.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#98 - 2013-04-19 17:41:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Inkuras
Touching on what you said above, how will a "cheater hunter" stop doing what he does when a 500mill bounty is placed on his head? If anything, he will laugh, and continue to do it more Pirate . PEOPLE ARE NOT AFRAID OF BOUNTIES. Placing a 500 million isk bounty on someone will not away them. They will not stop and go hide when a bounty is placed on their heads. YOU. ARE. WRONG. Evil

Edit: I think the OP's opinion on making bounties lower scammers' sec status is only because he is butthurt for getting scammed. Also, when you said you were payed only 300k from a character's bounty when his ship was worth 10 million, did it occur to you that perhaps you were in a fleet and the rest of the isk went to other fleetmates

Edit2: if someone would like to assist me in proving the bounty system is working fine, please place a 10 mill bounty on me. Tonight, I will have a corpmate kill me while I'm in a 5 mill frigate. I will then have him forward me the bounty payment mail. I will copy both the kill mail and bounty mail into this thread to prove he was payed accordingly.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-04-19 18:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Paladin Amarr
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Touching on what you said above, how will a "cheater hunter" stop doing what he does when a 500mill bounty is placed on his head? If anything, he will laugh, and continue to do it more Pirate . PEOPLE ARE NOT AFRAID OF BOUNTIES. Placing a 500 million isk bounty on someone will not away them. They will not stop and go hide when a bounty is placed on their heads. YOU. ARE. WRONG. Evil

Edit: I think the OP's opinion on making bounties lower scammers' sec status is only because he is butthurt for getting scammed. Also, when you said you were payed only 300k from a character's bounty when his ship was worth 10 million, did it occur to you that perhaps you were in a fleet and the rest of the isk went to other fleetmates

Edit2: if someone would like to assist me in proving the bounty system is working fine, please place a 10 mill bounty on me. Tonight, I will have a corpmate kill me while I'm in a 5 mill frigate. I will then have him forward me the bounty payment mail. I will copy both the kill mail and bounty mail into this thread to prove he was payed accordingly.


We are talking about an new player that get unmotivated buy the current game mechanics.
An ammount of this size for him was simple too much.

The kill reports shows exactly how much bounty was payed dosent mather for who.

About Edit2, fell free to do the test, but I am not the only one that did it, there is others even here in the forum in this same post tha confirm this.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#100 - 2013-04-19 18:10:44 UTC
from my point of view the bounty system does one thing.

Players you kill in PVP will give you a bounty pay out. The harder a player is to kill, the more enemies they have, and the higher their bounty. it is not about hunting certain players for their bounty, but allowing PVP to have a payout.

Sure you only get a piece of the bounty dependent on what they were flying when you killed them. But there are players with billions of isk bounty. These players may only pay out millions when killed, but can be killed many many times and still pay out a nice bounty.

lets say you averaged 1-2 mil bounty per player you killed. would that not be comparable to the bounties you get from ratting? This is the point, at least from my perspective. it may take time to build up a decent bounty on all the common PVPers, but once that happens PVP players will be able to make isk in PVP thru player bounties, rather than have to go out ratting to support their PVP.

I know this has not quite worked out this way, at least not yet. but if they added some small amount of automated bounty every time the killed another ship or pod. PVP players bounties could be high enough to allow at least the good PVPers to make their living from PVP. it is a good concept, but not so easy to implement.