EVE General Discussion

Ok you are entitled to your view that people don't back stab real life friends in eve more often simply because it takes longer to set up.

I will disagree. I think it doesn't happen that often because its not so clearly part of the game like bluffing is in poker.

As for your other points in you post they take the conversation a step backwards. Others in the thread are moving the conversation forward by going from general vague scenarios to very specific scenarios. Your 2 scenarios are quite vague as to what exactly people are doing. What specifically is it that you think would potentially be morally objectionable in either case?

I think we have a problem with communicating the points here.

Nobody is confusing EVE with real life.

What some of us are saying is that when you go out of your way as a player to make someone else not want to play the game, that is pretty wrong on a moral level and makes you a pretty bad person in real life.

This is not about destroying ships or stealing from a corp, this is about behavior we see less in game and more out of game and on the forums, you act like a bunch of bullies who can't be troubled with the idea that other people play this game to have fun.

Fun that does not involve you.

When you tell us that you really are a good person and yet you talk about collecting tears like a a bully who enjoys to hear the protests of his victims, yeah you have some issues you need to work out.

No no no. This goes to Cerain's arguments as well. At this point what you are arguing is that asshats exist in EVE. DUH! The original point is that your in game actions PROVE that the person behind the PC is immoral.

While the fact that the person is immoral may or may not be true, their actions in game cannot be used to make any determination about their moral character IRL.

Cerain's arguments about the friends you keep goes along these same lines. This is a condition you are placing on the type of relationships you allow. Which is why if you friends stole from you it would be considered a violation of your social contract with your buds, while Ranger and I have no such agreement with out associates. However, these points are outside the scope of the actions in game (soley) having anything to do with what kind of person is behind the keyboard.

A lot of ppl begin to lose focus of this when voice coms are used, because you are talking to each other, shooting the sh*t about sports, women, etc. They forget that these things are still being done in the context of the game. A competitive, unforgiving game.

A simpler example of this would be like me convoing someone to ask them about the recent hybrid changes. While they are looking it up I am scanning them down and warping on top of them. My actions, though not directly game related, were to serve a purpose for an in game result. This, in principle, is the same as having a long standing relationship in a corp and have been chatting with them on vent for very long time.

As for your example Holmes, that is like saying many of the stories you read on C&P lead you to the conclusion that most of the ppl on their are asshats. This may be true, but you can't prove it. Are they posting to elicit a response from their victims to gain tactical advantage (no moral qualms)? Or are the sitting their beating it while ppl post threads about how sad they are that they lost everything they had? You CAN NOT tell the difference within the context of the game.

It's not about what you are in real life, it's about what you want to be when logging into this game.

This is a game, where you can leave whatever mortality you have in real life at the door (pardon the pun).

It's your decision, you want to be a good boy much like real life, honorable and true to your word, that's fine, a lot of people are this way in EVE.

Just be smart enough to understand that some people choose not to be.
Others will wear a mask, pretend to be your friend, then screw you over if the price is right.


EVE Online has been this way for a long time, it's cruel for some, entertainment for others and it will likely never change.

All i can say is, there is no choice but to accept it, because sooner or later, you will be faced with it.

Yep, there has been a lot of derailing and circular arguments in this thread.

To put it more closely back in it's original context, I have often stated that one of the major components of EVE (if you drill down deeply enough) is to sort out exactly whom you can and cannot trust in game.

It's very challenging. Do you completely distrust this person, or if you do trust them just how FAR do you trust them?

Whether you have a personal relationship with that person in real life, or someone you have spoken to frequently on TS for months but never actually met, YOU have to decide what the trust level (if any) is.

Although it isn't obvious, it is one of the fundamental elements of the game.


One of the other basic premises of EVE is that in a universe where there is no place that offers an absolute promise of safety, how do you survive and succeed in whatever goal you have set for yourself.

If the EVE universe wasn't filled with a wide variety of very dangerous people (dangerous is ways ranging from brutally open to insidiously clever) you would not be presented with this challenge... and your playing experience would be greatly diminished.


The only "safety" I have ever endorsed is the small level of protection offered noobs in starter systems, as I feel they should at least have a chance to get oriented and learn the basic mechanics of the game before expecting them to swim with the sharks. I think that is fair to them and encourages player retention. But once you learn which keys do what and leave that modicum of safety behind, you are (and should be) on your own, and accept the consequences of the actions and decisions you make (or chose not to make as the case may be).

Well I'm home now, so I'm gonna log in and violence some boats and not get all :hurtbutte: if I lose one either.

Have fun getting bent out of shape about a video game; I'll be having fun playing it.

WHAT IS THIS!?!!?

People listening to both sides and parties on different sides of the fence learning from each other in reasonable dialouge!

NOT IN MY GD
:rabblerabble:

(good stuff though, this has been an interesting discussion)

Reh!?

Okay, I'm newbie of newbs here... But, Eve is a game which allows combat everywhere with only a layer of protection within the game mechanics. If someone doesn't want to play a COMBAT GAME, I wonder why they're in Eve. There are likely perfectly pleasing moon landing simulators that can fill your day with 3d outerspaceyness.

People play this game to have fun. Yes, spot on. Eve is bloody fun. But, what kind of things can be done for fun in Eve? PVE? PVP? Mining? Espionage? If you're going to be in an MMO, you're bound to accept every functional mechanic of the game. Otherwise, you simply won't enjoy it. You make you not want to play the game because the game isn't for you. It's for everyone who joined along with you.

Diversity is the spice of life. Eve has diversity. Lots of people enjoy the game for everything it has without whining about the ~one mechanic~ that annoys them.

And, fun that "does not involve you"? Yes, that's exactly why I log into a game with thousands of other people in the world... To get away and be alon.... LOLWUT!?

If I ever meet you in an asteroid belt, we'll both have to compromise something. I'm not playing your game and you're not playing mine. If I'm armed well enough to grenade you in losec; enjoy your pod trip home. If not, there are other things to do.


... I wonder if you ever played Mortal Combat with a friend in order to get the fighters to hug each other and watch the sunset.

What hurt? Butt?

hello michael. Welcome to the thread. Please read it before continuing to post. Its actually quite good.