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The Election is THIS Important

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Dave stark
#41 - 2013-04-19 11:27:11 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
I've been paying people in rens 5m each NOT to vote.

CSM has less power over this game than my left nipple.

I say don't vote until CCP come up with a system where players actually have some power over game policy.


you mean, the very system you're paying people not to participate in?



You are either Ignorant or Naive my friend.


or i'm not, and you're even more cynical than i am.
i like my explanation best.
cheese monkey
Chilil-out
#42 - 2013-04-19 11:28:45 UTC
have you actually read what the CSM does?

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Dave stark
#43 - 2013-04-19 11:30:47 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
have you actually read what the CSM does?


have you?
cheese monkey
Chilil-out
#44 - 2013-04-19 11:41:22 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
have you actually read what the CSM does?


have you?


Blagh, sigh. Not going to get into this. Basically I would argue that they have like 0 influence over CCP or this game.... see copious amounts of evidence over the last 7CSM's.

Feel free to continue to support them.

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Dave stark
#45 - 2013-04-19 11:46:39 UTC
i win.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#46 - 2013-04-19 11:55:18 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
have you actually read what the CSM does?


have you?


Blagh, sigh. Not going to get into this. Basically I would argue that they have like 0 influence over CCP or this game.... see copious amounts of evidence over the last 7CSM's.

Feel free to continue to support them.


Why do you think CCP would lie about this?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-04-19 12:02:22 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
All jokes and trolling aside, if one person does not equal one vote... then the whole thing is rigged from go. A guy who cannot even play, used the last few remaining accounts he had in order to equal two people, one of which does not really exist (evidently he had more then two originally and could have lopsided the vote even further if he were not deployed). Thus, large alliances will always own the CSM.


One account = One vote

a) CCP have no way of telling which accounts belong to the same person.
b) if you're paying for an account you're investing in the game - the more you pay the more you've invested.
c) I doubt the large power blocs would bother creating new accounts just to try rig the CSM elections.


Actually, regarding a)
CCP actually has multiple methods of telling who owns what accounts. They're not foolproof, but they can be highly indicative.
For example: the EVE client sends certain information about the user's computer hardware to CCP, which can be used to identify owners of multiple accounts. This is how they ban people over multiple accounts for the actions taken on one or a few of the accounts. Of course, this might not cover all of a person's accounts if they use multiple computers, and it might also cover multiple people if they use the same computer.
CCP also has payment information they can use to identify people, but again this isn't 100% accurate since multiple people could use the same payment method, or non-identifying payment methods could be used e.g. PLEX or Paypal(?)
And again, of course, there's also voluntarily supplied information, such as your name, account email, IP address, etc...

But again, nothing here is 100% foolproof.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-04-19 12:05:53 UTC
One of threads which you read then realise most eve players don't understand the relatively simple new voting system and that only voter apathy is to blame.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-04-19 12:09:37 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
... Basically I would argue that they have like 0 influence over CCP or this game.... see copious amounts of evidence over the last 7CSM's....
I won't argue one way or the other about the previous CSMs; and if you did not choose to vote... that is your right, but...

If you go through the Features & Ideas Discussion you can see CCP listening and sometimes changing things based on the feedback they get from the players. This is over the internet through a forum, so I would tend to believe that interacting with CSM on a constant basis would have some impact on CCP. How much, I can't say. I don't believe it to be '0'.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#50 - 2013-04-19 12:27:02 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
If you go through the Features & Ideas Discussion you can see CCP listening and sometimes changing things based on the feedback they get from the players.

That is true. Just look at this mash-up I posted in a feedback thread about the Gallente navy skins and look at the old an current skins. It was about the camo being all over the ship and my point was that it'd look better if it were only on parts. Players agreed and someone in the art department must have agreed, too.

The CSM could be much more effective if they wouldn't waste so much effort in politics, partisanship and epeen waving and instead would focus on developing a variety of solutions for any observed issue where CCP could then pick from.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#51 - 2013-04-19 12:28:10 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
I've been paying people in rens 5m each NOT to vote.

CSM has less power over this game than my left nipple.

I say don't vote until CCP come up with a system where players actually have some power over game policy.


It's a pity your sinister tit didn't declare its candidacy then.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-04-19 12:33:21 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
...The CSM could be much more effective if they wouldn't waste so much effort in politics, partisanship and epeen waving and instead would focus on developing a variety of solutions for any observed issue where CCP could then pick from.
Maybe 'we' have just been electing the wrong people, or...

"I've said it before and I'll say it again: Democracy simply doesn't work." ...Kent Brockman
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#53 - 2013-04-19 12:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Abrazzar wrote:

The CSM could be much more effective if they wouldn't waste so much effort in politics, partisanship and epeen waving


Can you give some examples of this? I mean obviously it's not just something that you imagine happens because you're informed by your preconceptions rather than things that have actually happened. Since "so much" of the CSM's effort was put into "politics, partisanship and epeen waving", you should easily be able to link half a dozen examples for us.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#54 - 2013-04-19 12:43:32 UTC
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2013-04-19 12:52:36 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Make your pick.

So… any example? The only thing I can find is TwoStep asking for a POS revamp in spite of CCP saying it's not worth it, which doesn't particularly strike me as “politics, partisanship and epeen waving”.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#56 - 2013-04-19 12:58:05 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
You clearly underestimate how many alt accounts null sec minions have. Have fun though. I am looking forward to not seeing a CSM sticker on your toon.


It's kind of funny you saying that, as Malcanis is one of the few "non bloc" candidates who I would put money on getting in.


Congratulations guys, you've both displayed how cluelessly ******** you both are.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2013-04-19 13:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Sure, Malcanis is HBC, but does he have official support? If not, seeing as The Initiative. being in HBC is a relatively recent development, then he is a non-bloc candidate as far as most people are concerned.
And as far as RAZOR goes and probably other alliances, we weren't actually told who to go vote for. There's some random post in our forums somewhere that has the "CFC recommended voting list" but nobody gives a **** if you follow it or not.
Besides, there are people on that list that aren't CFC or HBC.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#58 - 2013-04-19 13:17:51 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Make your pick.


No, I'm asking for you to tell us where it's happening. You made the massive blanket assertion about "politics, partisanship and epeen waving", you provide the evidence that it happens.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#59 - 2013-04-19 13:20:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Make your pick.

So… any example? The only thing I can find is TwoStep asking for a POS revamp in spite of CCP saying it's not worth it, which doesn't particularly strike me as “politics, partisanship and epeen waving”.


Perhaps it's evidence that the CSM are a CCP PR stunt.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#60 - 2013-04-19 13:21:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Make your pick.


No, I'm asking for you to tell us where it's happening. You made the massive blanket assertion about "politics, partisanship and epeen waving", you provide the evidence that it happens.


Better idea: You proof me wrong with your seat in CSM8. Then I might even vote next time. No point in debate club arguments when reality can be made.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics