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Pods, out of date tech?

Author
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#1 - 2013-04-16 11:32:53 UTC
Now with the DUST bunnies running around I finally went though a bit of a thought process that led me to this conclusion. Do we really need pods anymore in there present form. Meaning the whole bubble of goo you are in connected to the ship too insure that if you die your brain gets scanned correctly.

What I am thinking though is more of an RP standpoint of the pod now only has the function of being a very good escape pod while the whole brain scan saving your bacon bit is done by a small efficient implant similar to the dustys helmets. I still see the ability to connect to your ship through your pod but instead of the jar of goo you float in it would be more akin to a chair that in a time of emergency would close up like the standard pod.

Thoughts, comments, more importantly corrections if my lore is wrong Big smile .

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#2 - 2013-04-16 12:39:37 UTC
The pod's primary job is to control the ship decreasing crew sizes. The cloning is what made them more practical.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#3 - 2013-04-16 12:44:49 UTC
But if we wanted too (from an RP standpoint not a game one) could we now leave our ship on mostly auto pilot, leave the pod, walk around the ship and not risk getting killed permanently if the thing pops?

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2013-04-16 14:08:22 UTC
First off, CCP has outright stated that the capsule technology and DUSTie technology are not readily interchangable.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#5 - 2013-04-16 14:35:00 UTC
Ah, well that solves everything for me. Thanks for filling me in mate

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-04-16 17:40:25 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
First off, CCP has outright stated that the capsule technology and DUSTie technology are not readily interchangable.

Rather "downright incompatible", as i understand it. Here's a linky for you.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-04-17 19:33:21 UTC
Right. Basically the implants you need to interface with your ship are mutually exclusive from the implants you'd use as a DUST trooper. Convenient, but keeps us space jockeys employed :)

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Ckra Trald
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-04-17 20:52:18 UTC
Dust bunnies have an implant that does the brain scan, but Its all they need. There is no other benefits.

Pod pilots have the pod to survive space, scan the brain (much more I assume, pod pilots seem much more intelligent than troops), eat space food, etc. But we're talking about pods surviving depths of space, not some running on the ground.

http://www.rusemen.com/ Join Tengoo xd

Tanis Attor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-04-18 10:27:49 UTC
Ckra Trald wrote:
Dust bunnies have an implant that does the brain scan, but Its all they need. There is no other benefits.

Pod pilots have the pod to survive space, scan the brain (much more I assume, pod pilots seem much more intelligent than troops), eat space food, etc. But we're talking about pods surviving depths of space, not some running on the ground.


To add to this the pod is also to protect the pilot as the ship conducts rapid and violent maneuvers that would be impossible for a cockpit based pilot to conduct, first of all because the purpose of the pod is to deprive the pilot of his bodies senses, and make the ship basically his body with regards to maneuvers and senses, and also to protect him against the forces exerted on the crew during the rapid and high speed moves a capsuleer ship makes in combat or dodging rocks. The goo absorbs these forces. I suppose this means the crew have to be either lashed to their stations or get flung about the ship during maneuvers but that not really much of a concern of a capsuleer pilot.
Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#10 - 2013-04-19 05:46:35 UTC
Tanis Attor wrote:
Ckra Trald wrote:
Dust bunnies have an implant that does the brain scan, but Its all they need. There is no other benefits.

Pod pilots have the pod to survive space, scan the brain (much more I assume, pod pilots seem much more intelligent than troops), eat space food, etc. But we're talking about pods surviving depths of space, not some running on the ground.


To add to this the pod is also to protect the pilot as the ship conducts rapid and violent maneuvers that would be impossible for a cockpit based pilot to conduct, first of all because the purpose of the pod is to deprive the pilot of his bodies senses, and make the ship basically his body with regards to maneuvers and senses, and also to protect him against the forces exerted on the crew during the rapid and high speed moves a capsuleer ship makes in combat or dodging rocks. The goo absorbs these forces. I suppose this means the crew have to be either lashed to their stations or get flung about the ship during maneuvers but that not really much of a concern of a capsuleer pilot.


In many Sci Fis Halo included Crew areas have seats with straps for any Evasive or combat maneuvers.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

chaosjj
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-04-19 07:30:22 UTC
The DUST implant may seem way more advanced, but it has one big disadvantage, for the transfer to work, the soldier needs to be within a few miles of its CRU. the capsule can send the pilots mind from across the cluster and even from Anoikis. so both have their pro's and con's.
Tanis Attor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-04-19 08:54:13 UTC
chaosjj wrote:
The DUST implant may seem way more advanced, but it has one big disadvantage, for the transfer to work, the soldier needs to be within a few miles of its CRU. the capsule can send the pilots mind from across the cluster and even from Anoikis. so both have their pro's and con's.


Lets not forget that the dust implant is only for brain scanning, where as the pods primary functions is to help the pilot control the starship. In the pod brain scanning is a secondary function that was included well after the capsule was introduced.
chaosjj
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-04-19 09:23:35 UTC
Tanis Attor wrote:
chaosjj wrote:
The DUST implant may seem way more advanced, but it has one big disadvantage, for the transfer to work, the soldier needs to be within a few miles of its CRU. the capsule can send the pilots mind from across the cluster and even from Anoikis. so both have their pro's and con's.


Lets not forget that the dust implant is only for brain scanning, where as the pods primary functions is to help the pilot control the starship. In the pod brain scanning is a secondary function that was included well after the capsule was introduced.


Indeed, but i was just comparing the cloning capability's of the two technologies Cool
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#14 - 2013-04-19 12:40:59 UTC
Crimany I love EvE lore Lol

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-04-19 17:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Eija-Riitta Veitonen
DUST implants are like a recorder - they record all the mercenary's memories up to the point of death so they can be re-implanted in a new body.

Burning scanner actively scans the neural structure of the brain and transfers that data over to the cloning facilities to recreate the brain structure at the moment of death. The scanner is so violent and fast that it destroys the brain tissue, that's why capsuleers are injected with neurotoxins at the moment of breach-of-pod and during the scan.

And capsule itself is a spaceship control device that does away the hand-eye sync and many other links between the starship pilot and his/her ship. Though the original capsule design (given to caldari by the Jove) has been modified to include some of the more familiar controls and the burning scanner, which lead to current capsuleers.

This leaves me wondering, however, is there a possibility for the capsuleer be killed by a stray projectile penetrating the hull of the capsule before the burning scanner finishes?

edit: Capsuleers, among the optional implants available for your selection on the market, have some mandatory implantation, the neural interface implants that actually let us use the capsule. Now those are incompatible with the DUST implants. Or did you think those sockets on your neck and back are just for show?
Tanis Attor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-04-20 00:34:04 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:


This leaves me wondering, however, is there a possibility for the capsuleer be killed by a stray projectile penetrating the hull of the capsule before the burning scanner finishes?



http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/ppcc-part-1-the-capsule-and-the-clone/

I'm thinking yes to this question. The link above is to the scientific article relating to the development of the Hydrostatic Pod.

In there it states that the transneural burning scan is 99.7% effective. Any of us who have been podded know that we wake up at the other end shedding bitter tears about the lost implants.
There is a 0.3% chance (according to the lore, not so much game play) that something might go wrong. To me that might include the brain scan not going off correctly, or a second or two late, as you say Elja, allowing an 800mm auto cannon round to do its dirty work before the pilot can be euthanized and transmitted to the cloning facility.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#17 - 2013-04-20 08:59:06 UTC
So what stops a capsuleer jump cloning into a DUST clone?

I mean, as pod pilots we're able to jump clone into various clones with different implants and such installed, as long as the infomorph data is transferred via the pod interface implant, then any other additional implants don't seem to disrupt the process. Of course the DUST implant is a different technology, but it does a similar thing, which is to transfer infomorph data to and from the clone.

So if the pod technology infomorph data is the same as the DUST implant infomorph data, then jump cloning from a pod clone to a combat clone should be entirely possible. Even if the data was different or the interfaces were incompatible, meaning a conversion was required, I'm sure it could eventually be solved.
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-04-20 21:35:28 UTC
Logan LaMort wrote:
So what stops a capsuleer jump cloning into a DUST clone?
*snip*
So if the pod technology infomorph data is the same as the DUST implant infomorph data, then jump cloning from a pod clone to a combat clone should be entirely possible. Even if the data was different or the interfaces were incompatible, meaning a conversion was required, I'm sure it could eventually be solved.

But it isn't. DUST implants hold record of memories, capsule burnings scanner sends over brain neural data (interconnections between neurons, etc.).
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-04-22 16:19:04 UTC
Just a quick comment on the 'pod absorbing g-forces:'


PF has established artificial gravity as a technology in common use.

Hovercars, floating chairs for Amarr Holders, etc.

Especially on spaceships.


No one on the ships will feel a thing with the ships flying around and changing directions, as artificial gravity likely compensates 100%. Ship banks right, artificial gravity compensates.

No seat belts needed.



The insane maneuvers pod ships can perform is more a factor of the interface and immediate feedback and control, rather than through special ship ability.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Tanis Attor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-04-22 22:36:05 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Just a quick comment on the 'pod absorbing g-forces:'


PF has established artificial gravity as a technology in common use.

Hovercars, floating chairs for Amarr Holders, etc.

Especially on spaceships.


No one on the ships will feel a thing with the ships flying around and changing directions, as artificial gravity likely compensates 100%. Ship banks right, artificial gravity compensates.

No seat belts needed.



The insane maneuvers pod ships can perform is more a factor of the interface and immediate feedback and control, rather than through special ship ability.


So the ship does a 10G forward nose down pitching maneuver. To stop the crew from being stuck to the ceiling for the duration of the maneuver the artificial gravity has to pin the crew to the floor to the tune of 10Gs as anything less will have them float upwards. Follow that with a 25G turn to the right, due to the centripetal forces the artificial grav will have to increase by far more than 25G to stop everyone sliding sideways. It would be far less stressful to the crew to just have a few straps, a comfy seat and a rigorous gym program.
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