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[IDEA] Increase Tech 1 ship flexibility
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-04-18 07:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
A lot of tech 1 ships have role bonuses to enable them to perform their roles reasonably well. But these role bonuses are specific to modules they also have skill bonuses for. I propose that tech 1 ships (which are supposed to be flexible) have more generic role bonuses to allow them to explore more options within their basic role.

Some examples:

  • Logistics frigates and cruisers have range bonuses to their specific logistic module, but instead they could have a range bonus to all logistic modules - at least both remote armor repair and shield transfer, but maybe even remote sensor booster, tracking link, and remote ECCM.

  • Attack battlecruisers have a 95% reduction to powergrid and 50% reduction to CPU costs of the large turrets they have skill bonuses for. But why not enable them to fit all types of large turret?

  • Attack destroyers have 50% range bonus to the weapon they have skill bonuses for. Why not all small weapons?

Reasons to do this include but are not limited to: increasing tech 1 flexibility, allowing for more types of viable off-the-wall setups, and giggling at funny killmails

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-18 07:53:22 UTC
In before I am accused of asking for tech 1 ships to be given universal skill bonuses.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#3 - 2013-04-18 08:26:21 UTC
I wouldn't mind this... to an extent. Having bonuses to all racial variants is a little over the top, though.

Honestly, though, I think Tech I ships do need more bonuses. At least as many as Tech II ships, but not all focused on the same thing, because Tech II ships are supposed to be specialized whereas Tech I is the supposed standard and Tech III is generalized.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2013-04-18 09:14:08 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
In before I am accused of asking for tech 1 ships to be given universal skill bonuses.

You pretty much shot your own thread down by saying this.

Why have racial distinctions at all?

How did you Veterans start?
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-04-18 09:52:55 UTC
I always favour the idea of T1 sub systems that replace one or both of the ship's skill bonuses. So you can vary the ship's performance somewhat, fitting to your style and intended function.

It would also add some ISK drain on blueprints and research fees, more minerals bound into items, more trade and a entry level item for T1 production.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2013-04-18 10:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


  • Logistics frigates and cruisers have range bonuses to their specific logistic module, but instead they could have a range bonus to all logistic modules - at least both remote armor repair and shield transfer, but maybe even remote sensor booster, tracking link, and remote ECCM.

  • Attack battlecruisers have a 95% reduction to powergrid and 50% reduction to CPU costs of the large turrets they have skill bonuses for. But why not enable them to fit all types of large turret?

  • Attack destroyers have 50% range bonus to the weapon they have skill bonuses for. Why not all small weapons?




Logi cruisers have bonuses that compliment their racial "style". Granted some (a lot) of that has been lost with the tiericide -- that's the trouble with doing something like this 10 years in. The guys who came up with the original ship design are (probably) long gone, and the new guys don't know a damn thing about the racial "flavor" , or know it and ignore it in the endeavor to "balance" things across all races (e.g. turning the 'geddon into a better drone boat than the Domi).

The goal of balancing should really be "rock/paper/scissors/falcon" ... and not making everyone the same.

Attack BC ... because they're designed by the individual races, and why would the Gallente build in bonuses to Amarr weapons (or alternatively, have the "technology" to do so).

Dessies - same reason as the BC.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-18 10:51:18 UTC
So you want everyone to fly Minmatar hulls, shield tank, blaster ships?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#8 - 2013-04-18 11:41:30 UTC
It's called balance for the later 2 suggestions, as for the first bonuses to utility links would be ok, but not to both shield and armor RRs

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#9 - 2013-04-18 11:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: StoneCold
How about just picking a white ball with 3 empty bonus-slots?
You can choose the wished bonus from a drop-down menu.

Oh, and it´s ofc a very well timed as they are just about to start t1 cruiser rebalancing. OH WAIT

My true stories
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#10 - 2013-04-18 11:58:33 UTC
I would like to see a ship hull, tech 2 variant or an added bonus to current logistic ships. That provide a boost to tracking links, sensor boosting and other factors. Even if it is just a range bonus.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-04-18 12:18:09 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
I would like to see a ship hull, tech 2 variant or an added bonus to current logistic ships. That provide a boost to tracking links, sensor boosting and other factors. Even if it is just a range bonus.



Scimi and Onerios get tracking link bonuses already you know...
Velicitia
XS Tech
#12 - 2013-04-18 12:32:02 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So you want everyone to fly Minmatar hulls, shield tank, blaster ships?


I never said that. However, I would prefer that Rise and Fozzie stick more to the racial "flavor" that's been around forever.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-04-18 12:38:09 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So you want everyone to fly Minmatar hulls, shield tank, blaster ships?


I never said that. However, I would prefer that Rise and Fozzie stick more to the racial "flavor" that's been around forever.

TBH I never read you post. Sad
More commenting about the thread in general.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#14 - 2013-04-18 12:46:03 UTC
"CCP Please make only one ship, and only one type of modules for each slot of this ship, then i will be happy."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-04-18 15:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
ShahFluffers wrote:
You pretty much shot your own thread down by saying this.

Why have racial distinctions at all?
I am interested to know where I suggested not having racial distinction?

Velicitia wrote:
The goal of balancing should really be "rock/paper/scissors/falcon" ... and not making everyone the same.

Attack BC ... because they're designed by the individual races, and why would the Gallente build in bonuses to Amarr weapons (or alternatively, have the "technology" to do so).

Dessies - same reason as the BC.
I think of the attack battlecruisers less as having an unGodly ability to link huge weapons to a tiny power grid, and more as having an already integrated power grid specifically designed to handle large weapons. If an oracle can fit autocannons, it should be able to fit large autocannons. It doesn't mean everyone will fly around in an autocannon-fit oracle (though I wouldn't be too surprised), but it does mean that when Randomus Maximus decides that turret A isn't good enough for purpose 1, he can mount turret B instead. Though it will be unbonused, it will still serve the purposes he specifically needs it to. That's the whole idea behind being able to fit all of the generic modules to your ship, and these ships have been designed to fit large turrets.

Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So you want everyone to fly Minmatar hulls, shield tank, blaster ships?
You can already put blasters on a shield-tanked Minmatar hull. Why isn't everybody doing it?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#16 - 2013-04-18 15:43:13 UTC
Part of the thing that defines racial hulls is their weapon systems. Further, ships that can be fit in too many ways are a bad thing. Your knowledge of an opponent's ship is limited to which hull they're flying. If the hull itself becomes meaningless then it impedes peoples' abilities to make intelligent plans and tactical decisions.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#17 - 2013-04-18 17:41:20 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
In before I am accused of asking for tech 1 ships to be given universal skill bonuses.

You pretty much shot your own thread down by saying this.

Why have racial distinctions at all?


^^^ Pretty much this... the "limited" application of ewar bonuses to racial ewar, of RR bonuses to specific tank types, the weapon bonuses to specific weapon platforms... are all aimed at making the races individualized, distinct, and unique.

Your suggestion really comes across as homogenizing EvE ships, which frankly, is not what the game needs. Different is good, and we don't want everything to be equal.... just moderately balanced.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-04-18 23:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Attack battlecruisers have a 95% reduction to powergrid and 50% reduction to CPU costs of the large turrets they have skill bonuses for. But why not enable them to fit all types of large turret?



I'll bite....why exactly would you trade in massive bonuses to damage and tracking on talos to run projectiles or lasers? To get damage or tracking in any amount you'd be gyro'd, te'd and tc'd the hell out. The minimal tank you have is now lower than glass cannon levels. A glass cannon that is still less dps than your racial gun.



You are looking at role bonuses, that means ship bonuses stay the same. It be these ship bonuses that actually matter. In the above tracking and damage are ship bonuses.

Also recheck your Role bonus for attack dessies....they are not universal chief. What good does a drone MWD speed ROLE bonus do to that massive drone bay capacity of a corax?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-04-19 00:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
That is why every race have a T1 Variant of each group of ship... So if you want the Armour bonus you take one race, if you want the shield you take the other.

Oh! So you want to have it all on only one race, so you don't need to train for the others....

sorry mate... I think that you have to acquire more SP in other races...

Or you can fly a SOCT racial battle-cruiser, that have the bonus in the exactly way you want... ( That ship is a mess i.m.o.). Try it on Singularity.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-04-19 02:09:59 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
I'll bite....why exactly would you trade in massive bonuses to damage and tracking on talos to run projectiles or lasers? To get damage or tracking in any amount you'd be gyro'd, te'd and tc'd the hell out. The minimal tank you have is now lower than glass cannon levels. A glass cannon that is still less dps than your racial gun.
Sometimes using a weapon that doesn't cost capacitor or that has great tracking at mid-range is more important. If it's so not-overpowered, why are you so vehemently opposed to it?

Zan Shiro wrote:
You are looking at role bonuses, that means ship bonuses stay the same. It be these ship bonuses that actually matter. In the above tracking and damage are ship bonuses.
Your point?

Zan Shiro wrote:
Also recheck your Role bonus for attack dessies....they are not universal chief. What good does a drone MWD speed ROLE bonus do to that massive drone bay capacity of a corax?
Attack destroyers, NOT combat destroyers. I'm talking about Coercer, Cormorant, Catalyst, and Thrasher.

All anyone has yet said in opposition to my idea can be summed up as follows:
1.) it adds too many options, therefore it is overpowered
2.) it adds only options that will never get used, therefore it is underpowered

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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