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Should someone have a chance to tackle a PvE'r that is doing everything right?
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#21 - 2013-04-18 18:22:50 UTC
Quote:
Should someone have a chance to tackle a PvE'r that is doing everything right?

Sure he should have a chance... All the chances you give him. If you're feeling stingy, and keep on doing things 'right,' well... Maybe he should try something different.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

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Untanas Volmyr
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-04-18 18:38:08 UTC
If pre-emptive tactical preparations can be planned out as precisely as yours. Then I would think that is why they cannot track you. Chess is a simple game. and has its limitations. If you know what to do as well as what not to do. The complexity of the challenge is what thrills many players. Me included. However to become so sure of your tactical wits protecting you from every scenario you could come up with. You may as well taunt your opponent until they flip the table over and claim its broken.

Murphy's Technology Law - If your not thoroughly confused. Then you were not thoroughly informed.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#23 - 2013-04-18 18:56:24 UTC
Untanas Volmyr wrote:
Chess is a simple game. and has its limitations.


It may have limitations, but that **** ain't simple.

Thread Prediction: Sidetrack into full "remove local / LOCAL IS FINE" by page 4.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#24 - 2013-04-18 19:05:42 UTC
You've covered all the important safety measures used in null there. I'd be extremely surprised if someone not blue were able to get you.

Good old life in the blue donut huh? Cool

Still waiting on them removal local for null, that would be sweet.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-04-18 19:34:56 UTC
Nuela wrote:

Should a predator be able to catch prey in Eve where the Prey is doing everything in his/her power to not be caught or should the Prey have to make a mistake or not be fully cautious?

Deaths are always going to be a result of a mistake made by the defender. Even if it comes down to something as simple as "you undocked".

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-04-18 19:36:17 UTC
How did they fail at getting an alt in to awox you? Failed to get into the alliance or got an alt into the alliance and failed to blow you up? Either way, they should have been able to achieve at least that, they obviously weren't trying hard enough.

Or better yet, as someone else said, just afk cloak your PVE systems to prevent you from your null bearing. That would do you more damage than anything else I'm sure. I doubt you'd enjoy spending all of your game time floating at a POS.

Long story short, they should not have succeeded against you. You were trying harder.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#27 - 2013-04-18 19:48:42 UTC
If they were truly determined, they would have probed out your safespots and bubbled them, and already caught you. Eve favors the more prepared pilots.

You're winning, keep it up.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-04-18 20:02:41 UTC
Louise Antwoord wrote:
Just remove local !


This wouldn't really change anything. The OP would just have to do their PvE the way players do in a wormhole. Instead of having the local chat window front and center, they would have the d-scan window front and center. Instead of warping out as soon as an unfamiliar name appears in local, OP would warp out when an unfamiliar ship appears on d-scan.

And the only thing that makes d-scan less "free" than local is having to spam the scan button.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-04-18 20:23:06 UTC
Erik Kaassan wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.


So they should be punished for using a game provided resource to get a leg up on potential predators? Did I get redirected to the World of Warcrap forums?


No of course people shouldn't be punished for playing the game within the rules but the real question is; is a free and instant intel gathering tool (local) a good game mechanic?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-04-18 20:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Louise Antwoord wrote:
Just remove local !


This wouldn't really change anything. The OP would just have to do their PvE the way players do in a wormhole. Instead of having the local chat window front and center, they would have the d-scan window front and center. Instead of warping out as soon as an unfamiliar name appears in local, OP would warp out when an unfamiliar ship appears on d-scan.

And the only thing that makes d-scan less "free" than local is having to spam the scan button.



Yeah but the difference is that the OP would be actively doing something to gather intel. Plus, the range of D-scan is limited to 14AU and you can't see cloaked ships on D.

I don't think local should be removed but it should be changed in a way that involved a players active participation.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-04-18 21:31:40 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Louise Antwoord wrote:
Just remove local !


This wouldn't really change anything. The OP would just have to do their PvE the way players do in a wormhole. Instead of having the local chat window front and center, they would have the d-scan window front and center. Instead of warping out as soon as an unfamiliar name appears in local, OP would warp out when an unfamiliar ship appears on d-scan.

And the only thing that makes d-scan less "free" than local is having to spam the scan button.



Yeah but the difference is that the OP would be actively doing something to gather intel. Plus, the range of D-scan is limited to 14AU and you can't see cloaked ships on D.

I don't think local should be removed but it should be changed in a way that involved a players active participation.


Because mashing the d-scan button over and over is so much effort and such a noticeable level of participation.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-04-18 21:39:40 UTC
They do have a chance to get you.

You are just really good at not getting got!

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-04-18 21:42:32 UTC
Nuela wrote:
His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.

well. he is right.

And eve Online already gives a chance to them to catch you.

Just imagine: you aligned, they appeared and... disconnect/lag.... You killed.
No reimbursement (logs show nothing).

This is the chance they have all the time to catch you and the chance you have all the time to get caught.

Nothing to worry about

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2013-04-18 21:46:38 UTC
Nuela wrote:
Not sure how to explain this so let me explain by a story of what happened to me a few days ago.

I belong to an alliance in Null. I do the majority of my isk-making/PvE there. When you do this in Null, there are things you need to do:

- I keep the Intelligence channel open so I can 'see' bad guys coming before they even reach me.
- I have local disconnected from chat and set up right in the MIDDLE of my screen so I am constantly looking at it. This way I can see any non-blue coming into local within seconds.
- I only run PvE in systems where there are friendly POS's to warp to. In addition, I have several, nicely placed far-apart safe spots.
- I am constantly running full speed and aligned. I can warp out instantly.
- When a blue comes into my area and I don't recognise the name as someone a know WELL, I warp off.

So, anyway, There was a particular couple fo guys (non-blue) who I must have offended with my big, smartass mouth and they tried to get me. I didn't really know this at the time - just knew that neuts were around more often. A few days ago I get a convo invite from a nuet and he proceeds to complain bitterly that Eve was 'broken', wrong etc etc etc because a friend of his and him have tried to get me for days. They tried everything he said...even getting an alt into the alliance and try to Awox me.

His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.

Well, maybe he has a point? I don't think so but maybe? Curious as to what others think.

The main thing that made me decide he probably doesn't have a point is if he should have a chance to nab me even though I took all precautions...shouldn't I have a chance to nab him as well when he is trying to nab me? Even though he is doing all the right things, cloaking, etc shouldn't I have a chance to get him in a way he can do nothing about or should it only apply to PvE'ers?


If they get you, you didn't do everything right.

If they don't get you, they didn't do everything right,

If they really, truly want to get you and they're prepared to put the work in, they will; then you'll have to buy another ship.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-04-18 23:10:47 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Louise Antwoord wrote:
Just remove local !


This wouldn't really change anything. The OP would just have to do their PvE the way players do in a wormhole. Instead of having the local chat window front and center, they would have the d-scan window front and center. Instead of warping out as soon as an unfamiliar name appears in local, OP would warp out when an unfamiliar ship appears on d-scan.

And the only thing that makes d-scan less "free" than local is having to spam the scan button.



Yeah but the difference is that the OP would be actively doing something to gather intel. Plus, the range of D-scan is limited to 14AU and you can't see cloaked ships on D.

I don't think local should be removed but it should be changed in a way that involved a players active participation.


Because mashing the d-scan button over and over is so much effort and such a noticeable level of participation.


Sarcasm is the lowest for of whit...

I wasn't suggesting that d-scanning was the most skill based and interesting thing to do but what i did was a fact, like it or not.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-04-18 23:14:30 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Nuela wrote:
His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.

well. he is right.

And eve Online already gives a chance to them to catch you.

Just imagine: you aligned, they appeared and... disconnect/lag.... You killed.
No reimbursement (logs show nothing).

This is the chance they have all the time to catch you and the chance you have all the time to get caught.

Nothing to worry about



LMAO so lag and disconnects are a game balancing method now? Ridiculous Lol

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-04-18 23:49:54 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.

Has there ever been a thread about brainstorming ideas intelligence gathering methods in the hypothetical case that local gets removed/nerfed? If not, we definitely need one.


Such a thing has never before been attempted. You and I shall embark on this endeavor and emerge with such fame and glory as we cannot yet imagine. No man will be our forum equal.

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Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-04-19 00:01:55 UTC
Trust me, there is no such thing as 100% safe.
Just because theyre not smart enough to catch you does not mean it is impossible. No issue here.

There is no Bob.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#39 - 2013-04-19 00:07:52 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Nuela wrote:
His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.

well. he is right.

And eve Online already gives a chance to them to catch you.

Just imagine: you aligned, they appeared and... disconnect/lag.... You killed.
No reimbursement (logs show nothing).

This is the chance they have all the time to catch you and the chance you have all the time to get caught.

Nothing to worry about



LMAO so lag and disconnects are a game balancing method now? Ridiculous Lol


I think the point was "you're aligned, they show up and anything makes you slip by a second will probably get you killed"

Really, if they were good, they'd meet you at fanfest this year and somehow get your home or mobile phone number (it's "so and so" in your corp, can't believe that we live on the other side of town ... etc), then give you a ring just as they were getting ready to hop into system so that they know you're distracted by either a) having to answer the phone or b) the conversation itself.

Alternatively, they'll just cut the power to your house. Pirate

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#40 - 2013-04-19 01:29:31 UTC
Just point out to them that the tactics you are using are exactly the same tactics they use to avoid blobs.

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