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** HILMAR - Remove the CSM Now...**

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Parsec Seti
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2011-11-01 14:06:25 UTC
Yeep wrote:
(despite being a stupid made up word)


Is this on the goonswarm talking points list? Does the hive think for you?

All words are made up.

"Welcome to you're doom!"
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2011-11-01 15:41:09 UTC
Its a buzzword. A placating measure on a marketing agency's list for when customers feel ignored. Saying we should engage in crowdsourcing is about as useful as asking me to go to the shops for some stuff.

Now how about you address the rest of my post?
Parsec Seti
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2011-11-01 23:33:13 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
Crowdsourcing - wow, who knew?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing


Ok, now go read the link

These forums are already well within the umbrella of what is defined as crowdsourcing (despite being a stupid made up word). Whats being proposed is an absolute democracy, and I think history has made it quite clear those don't work.


Yeep wrote:
Now how about you address the rest of my post?


It seems like you're offering your opinions as fact. They are still just your opinions.

You (and many others) are still confused over the term democracy. As I understand it, a democracy is a system of government and implies that those voted in will govern over the public. While it true that the current CSM chair governs over you and decides what you can and can't do in EVE, the CSM does not govern over the playerbase.

What people are looking for here is a method of getting in touch with a great proportion of the players then the current method of the CSM. It is many peoples opinion that the CSM is biased and since their function is to be the lens through which CCP views customer issues, many people are left wanting a new system that the feel will do a better job in capturing the voice of the players. Crowdsourcing may not be the answer, but I like the idea of more representation, rather than less.

It's disappointing to see that most goonswarm posters on here seem to be trying to stop public discourse, rather than promote it...but I understand.

"Welcome to you're doom!"
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#224 - 2011-11-02 00:52:54 UTC
Tell him to give me "Cat Party" or it's going to be talon party. At your face's house.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
Parsec Seti
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2011-11-02 01:06:26 UTC
Destru Kaneda wrote:
Tell him to give me "Cat Party" or it's going to be talon party. At your face's house.



Brilliant! took me a second (which is shameful) - but I support meeting these demands!

"Welcome to you're doom!"
Kerah Yahr
Corus Industries
#226 - 2011-11-02 08:51:50 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Mr Management wrote:
The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand.


Sure. More walking in a closet and more monocles. Go ahead.


When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve
then the system is flawed.


Nope.

Check what's happening in real life. I'll take America as an exemple, despite how stupid that is.

Two entites. Democrats and Republicans.

Democrats ideas are stupidities, for Republicans.

Republicans ideas are stupidities, for Democrats.



That is a pretty good analogy. Like American politics, posts on the forums break down into stereotypes, insults and name calling.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2011-11-02 08:55:34 UTC
Wait, what? Someone is actually trying to say that monoclegate and walking in a closet is the CSM's fault, and not CCP/Hilmar?

That's an interesting take on things.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2011-11-02 09:59:26 UTC
Parsec Seti wrote:

It's disappointing to see that most goonswarm posters on here seem to be trying to stop public discourse, rather than promote it...but I understand.


Have you read the features and ideas forum? Most of the ideas range from transparently self serving to completely braindead. The majority of players don't care about the state of the game outside their personal bubble of experience so yes, I'd rather keep the current system where people who at least understand the world is bigger than what they can see (even if they don't grasp the full implications or mechanics) get to filter communication with CCP.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#229 - 2011-11-02 10:21:44 UTC
Parsec Seti wrote:
It's disappointing to see that most goonswarm posters on here seem to be trying to stop public discourse, rather than promote it...but I understand.

Because a thread titled "HILMAR - Remove the CSM Now" is an invitation to rational discourse.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#230 - 2011-11-02 11:59:33 UTC
CSM system flawed, totally.

Vote rigging, of course that won't change.

Corruption almost certainly.






Simple way to resolve it, get rid of the CSM.


Then problem solved.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2011-11-02 12:02:21 UTC
Twisted Alice wrote:
Corruption almost certainly.

What kind of corruption?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2011-11-02 13:19:29 UTC
Twisted Alice wrote:
Vote rigging, of course that won't change.

I'm sure you have some proof of this, right? You wouldn't resort to making baseless accusations against the Chairman For Life...

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Big Bad Mofo
Doomheim
#233 - 2011-11-02 13:21:34 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Vote rigging, of course that won't change.

I'm sure you have some proof of this, right? You wouldn't resort to making baseless accusations against the Chairman For Life...


So a few thousand of your own alliance members and a few thousand of their alts outside alliance is not considered vote rigging them? Im sure it is in real life..Shocked
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2011-11-02 13:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Vote rigging, of course that won't change.

I'm sure you have some proof of this, right? You wouldn't resort to making baseless accusations against the Chairman For Life...


So a few thousand of your own alliance members and a few thousand of their alts outside alliance is not considered vote rigging them? Im sure it is in real life..Shocked



So what? Each account is only allowed one vote so it doesn't make any difference if the alt accounts had characters in the alliance or not. Are you just mad that so many pubbies voted for Mittens along with the Goons? I hope it's that because it would be funny.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Sirhan Blixt
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2011-11-03 03:29:18 UTC
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Vote rigging, of course that won't change.

I'm sure you have some proof of this, right? You wouldn't resort to making baseless accusations against the Chairman For Life...


So a few thousand of your own alliance members and a few thousand of their alts outside alliance is not considered vote rigging them? Im sure it is in real life..Shocked

So the real crime is ... that there are so many Goons?

I'm a little conflicted here.

I mean, consider the Goon stereotypes we hear, mostly from pubbies: fat neckbeards, addled by Asperger's Syndrome, living in parents' basements, condemned to dying alone.

On the other hand, now I'm in a position where I have to ask, quite pointedly and out loud ...

... that if you can't manage the level of social interaction and cooperation necessary to compete with Goons on this playing field ...

... WHY IS THAT OUR PROBLEM??

Seriously-- work with me here. I don't know which way to go with this.

(it's all because we don't open-recruit, isn't it?)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2011-11-03 07:57:36 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Corruption almost certainly.

What kind of corruption?

I guess not?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2011-11-03 08:34:19 UTC
I think he's honestly upset that so many people outside Goonswarm Federation voted for Mittens.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2011-11-03 09:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Red Templar
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Twisted Alice wrote:
Vote rigging, of course that won't change.

I'm sure you have some proof of this, right? You wouldn't resort to making baseless accusations against the Chairman For Life...


So a few thousand of your own alliance members and a few thousand of their alts outside alliance is not considered vote rigging them? Im sure it is in real life..Shocked

I dont think it is. Because it has nothing to do with voting systems that we have in real life.

And i dont remember CCP making a rule that you cannot vote from your alt accounts. The only restriction was that your account have to be paid and older than 30 days.

The more accounts you pay for - more votes you have. Its a simple share system. Even corporation voting inside the game is based on how many shares corp members/directors have.

Unless you want to make voting in game the same like voting in real life, e.g. coming in personally, presenting your ID, giving signature, filling papers.

But even if by some miracle CCP will go completely mad and forbid alt voting (i have no idea how, but still), it will not change anything. High-sec players are not interested in voting. And even if they will vote, they cannot agree on the candidate. Hell, they cannot agree on anything.

So good luck with replacing Chairman for Life :D

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#239 - 2011-11-03 10:20:21 UTC
Kerah Yahr wrote:

That is a pretty good analogy. Like American politics, posts on the forums break down into stereotypes, insults and name calling.

IS this guy trying to say that American politics are the only ones to pull this kind of thing? Shocked

Oh, it is to laugh. Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Kerah Yahr
Corus Industries
#240 - 2011-11-03 11:45:51 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Kerah Yahr wrote:

That is a pretty good analogy. Like American politics, posts on the forums break down into stereotypes, insults and name calling.

IS this guy trying to say that American politics are the only ones to pull this kind of thing? Shocked

Oh, it is to laugh. Lol


Lol Not at all, just speaking to what I know. I'm sure Americans don't have the market cornered on that sort of thing.

For the record, I think the current CSM has done a good job, seeing past all the QQ over current Goonswarm representatives, positive changes have been made. The bar for the next CSM has been set higher. As long as they can listen to the concerns of the players and present that to CCP, cool. The community isn't going to agree on everything, we can at least try and get ideas across without the tears and flames.