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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[news] Minmatar residents of Federation express growing concern

Author
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#41 - 2013-04-18 19:17:48 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
While I can appreciate the love you feel for your fiancée, Mr. Belfleur, loving one person of a different ethnicity does not necessarily make you tolerant or accepting of other cultures. Indeed, you've merely reinforced the view, and continue to provide an example of why some distrust the Federation.

What if a majority of the people in your Federation were taken with the idea that the Gallente Federation is, indeed, only for the Gallente? While this thinking is fallacious, it's still the reasoning that some of us use when faced with segregationist tendencies.

I myself distrust the Federation, Captain Priano. If I had lived back when it was conceived, and if the decision had been up to me, I would have much preferred to keep Garoun its own separate kingdom, rather than serve as the architect of an unwieldy and quite admittedly suffocating supernational umbrella government. In effect, if we had decided that our society should be exclusively Gallente, there would have been no need for a Federation at all.

Incidentally, this also means I believe that our approach towards your own people was very wrong. Once our cultural incompatibility was discovered, what we should have done was to sit down and divide up our portion of the cluster into separate zones of expansion and development. Then we should have parted ways and proceeded with a policy of peaceful non-interaction from there on. The war and bitterness we have had instead has been wasteful and disgraceful in equal measure.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#42 - 2013-04-18 19:32:29 UTC
Hm. Interesting. Cultural isolationism, then, instead of segregation. While I still think that your belief is couched on a sort of cultural superiority, at the very least your views aren't imperial in nature. Credit where credit is due.

I'll have to give myself some time to think on this. Something still unsettles me, even though you've established yourself not necessarily as a Gallente nationalist, but an sort of unorthodox isolationist.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2013-04-18 19:35:37 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
... I thought you were referring to a person vampire, not the class of capacitor warfare systems. My bad.


There are people vampires? Oh my.


Oh Schere-suuolo... Never change.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Anslo
Scope Works
#44 - 2013-04-18 19:37:22 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
... I thought you were referring to a person vampire, not the class of capacitor warfare systems. My bad.


There are people vampires? Oh my.


Oh Schere-suuolo... Never change.


Get of the GalNet before I take the console from your room. You're not supposed to be active yet. Doctor's order.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#45 - 2013-04-18 19:38:06 UTC
Pieter, I think Anslo is enjoying his authority too much...

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#46 - 2013-04-18 19:39:43 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
"The laws of the Federation were written for the good of the many. Not the good of the Gallente nor the good of the Caldari. Hopefully, we can help them remember this."- Gallente Senator Fronte Belliare, Senate session 23154/T3782. CE 23154.11.21


This is an exceedingly poor choice of quotes to use in this situation. It was this sentiment that was used to justify the response to Nouvelle Rouvenor.

Context is important.

The context this statement was made in was anything but the one you are trying to use it for.


You are wrong, Ms Lagann. Given his past expressed views it is PRECISELY the context he was intending to use it for. Cultural Imperialism is not a trait limited to Imperial cultures.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2013-04-18 19:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Anslo wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
... I thought you were referring to a person vampire, not the class of capacitor warfare systems. My bad.


There are people vampires? Oh my.


Oh Schere-suuolo... Never change.


Get of the GalNet before I take the console from your room. You're not supposed to be active yet. Doctor's order.


You cannot keep me chained to this bed forever, Anslo... Dammit. He sent another one of his white uniformed flunkies to sedate me again...

You're a facist, Anslo!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Anslo
Scope Works
#48 - 2013-04-18 19:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Makoto Priano wrote:
Pieter, I think Anslo is enjoying his authority too much...


Hey, I'm qualified for this alright? I don't want him to have TOO much neural stimulation til his latest results come in. After that, I'll be comparing the ones we had over the past few days to measure his healing rate and see if all is well. I expect him to be released tonight after conferring with Scherezad. If not tonight, tomorrow for sure.

At least in my opinion. I always consider second opinions from people in the same field. It's just good practice.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You cannot keep me chained to this bed forever, Anslo... Dammit. He sent another one of his white uniformed flunkies to sedate me again...

You're a facist, Anslo!


Oh don't be a baby it's just to make sure your IV drip and meds don't need replenishing. You can post what you want, just don't over do it til we do a comparison on a few tests alright?

...ya big baby.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#49 - 2013-04-18 20:22:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You are wrong, Ms Lagann. Given his past expressed views it is PRECISELY the context he was intending to use it for. Cultural Imperialism is not a trait limited to Imperial cultures.


My point is that the two quotes should never be used together, ever, and that to do so is offensive on so many levels it would be a waste of time to list them all.

They may suggest similar things on the surface, but the two statements are entirely different underneath the surface.

One actually describes the Federation as a concept.

The other was nothing more than an excuse used to justify a campaign of orbital bombardment in response to a terrorist attack.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Anslo
Scope Works
#50 - 2013-04-18 20:25:29 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You are wrong, Ms Lagann. Given his past expressed views it is PRECISELY the context he was intending to use it for. Cultural Imperialism is not a trait limited to Imperial cultures.


My point is that the two quotes should never be used together, ever, and that to do so is offensive on so many levels it would be a waste of time to list them all.

They may suggest similar things on the surface, but the two statements are entirely different underneath the surface.

One actually describes the Federation as a concept.

The other was nothing more than an excuse used to justify a campaign of orbital bombardment in response to a terrorist attack.


I think Pieter was trying to make that the point. The guy is probably a walking contradiction to Pieter. This was established WELL before this thread started...at least in Pieter's mind.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#51 - 2013-04-18 20:44:28 UTC
Anslo wrote:
But think of it this way; those same, ancient people were the progenitors of us, the ones who championed freedom and a voice for all. It took time, but they formed it. What do you think they'd say of the state we live in now, where what was once an ideal is now cast aside in the name of 'preservation' against something that isn't even a threat.

Your ancestors may have championed those ideas. My ancestors chose to leave when they recognized that those ideas were being carried entirely too far.

All that said, I suppose you are right, strictly speaking. My ancestors did choose to leave, and although it pains me to see that the culture I recognize as Garoun is fading on its own world of origin, maybe I do have to accept that in a very real sense, it is not my home anymore, if it ever was. It was not an easy choice my ancestors made when they left, and it's not an easy choice to live with today, not really. Our gods are still there, visible in the night sky. I still hold that world very dear in my heart.

But I suppose it is no longer home.

Anslo wrote:
You think what you want, go right ahead. But I have to say if you acted like you speak here in front of me, in person, and acted high and mighty to another person of another race who isn't super Gallentean despite living in say, Caille?

I'd have to deck you square in the jaw, Gallentean or not.

I am honestly not sure what prompts you to say this, Captain. I believe I have presented my views in a perfectly civil and level-headed manner. I am also not a pugilist at all. If my views offend you to the point where you feel you have to fight me, I suggest a duel in space would provide a better solution to the dispute.
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#52 - 2013-04-18 20:51:33 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Hm. Interesting. Cultural isolationism, then, instead of segregation. While I still think that your belief is couched on a sort of cultural superiority, at the very least your views aren't imperial in nature. Credit where credit is due.

I'll have to give myself some time to think on this. Something still unsettles me, even though you've established yourself not necessarily as a Gallente nationalist, but an sort of unorthodox isolationist.

Cultural isolationism would indeed be an accurate description of my views, Captain.

It is also not completely unorthodox, where I come from. I like to say that we named our region Solitude for a reason. Senators from back home continue to try to prove me wrong on that, but then again, what can you expect from people who would seek Federal office?
Anslo
Scope Works
#53 - 2013-04-18 20:53:27 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
Your ancestors may have championed those ideas. My ancestors chose to leave when they recognized that those ideas were being carried entirely too far.

Huh, sorry. I didn't know taking up the defense of people's right to live and be as they are could be taken too far. Silly me.

Quote:
All that said, I suppose you are right, strictly speaking. My ancestors did choose to leave, and although it pains me to see that the culture I recognize as Garoun is fading on its own world of origin, maybe I do have to accept that in a very real sense, it is not my home anymore, if it ever was. It was not an easy choice my ancestors made when they left, and it's not an easy choice to live with today, not really. Our gods are still there, visible in the night sky. I still hold that world very dear in my heart.

...you are seriously very, very dramatic. More than I am. And that's saying something. But if you want to act like our way of life is long and dead and that the Garoun Empire is long forgot, go ahead. I'm not going to stop you.

Quote:
But I suppose it is no longer home.

To you sure.

Anslo wrote:
I am honestly not sure what prompts you to say this, Captain. I believe I have presented my views in a perfectly civil and level-headed manner. I am also not a pugilist at all. If my views offend you to the point where you feel you have to fight me, I suggest a duel in space would provide a better solution to the dispute.


Your civil manner is rather egotistical, stuck up, and oozing of superiority because you want to preserve something that doesn't need preserving because it's not dying despite what you may think of other races.

That annoys me. A lot. I punch people who annoy me. I like to feel fist against face or annoyance. Simple, yes?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#54 - 2013-04-18 21:24:15 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Your civil manner is rather egotistical, stuck up, and oozing of superiority because you want to preserve something that doesn't need preserving because it's not dying despite what you may think of other races.

That annoys me. A lot. I punch people who annoy me. I like to feel fist against face or annoyance. Simple, yes?

And you, Captain, come across as little more than a common thug. Very simple, just as you say. Then again, I have come to expect little better from most UoC graduates.

Shall we consider this discourse concluded?
Anslo
Scope Works
#55 - 2013-04-18 21:29:20 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
And you, Captain, come across as little more than a common thug. Very simple, just as you say. Then again, I have come to expect little better from most UoC graduates.

Shall we consider this discourse concluded?


When your enemy dismisses you as not a threat, the path to victory is simple.

I graduated UoC and even went back for a few other degrees, but I don't feel a need to flaunt it, nor anything else I may be skilled at just to appease people and prove to aristocratic bigots like yourself that I'm 'proper.' So please, continue thinking I'm a thug. Who knows, maybe I might pick your pocket or something.

And yeah, we're done. I have nothing to say to a self-centered ultra-nationalist. Just stay in Solitude and keep your bigotry to yourself. We have enough nuts here to deal with.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#56 - 2013-04-18 22:40:43 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Emile Belfleur wrote:
And you, Captain, come across as little more than a common thug. Very simple, just as you say. Then again, I have come to expect little better from most UoC graduates.

Shall we consider this discourse concluded?


When your enemy dismisses you as not a threat, the path to victory is simple.

I graduated UoC and even went back for a few other degrees, but I don't feel a need to flaunt it, nor anything else I may be skilled at just to appease people and prove to aristocratic bigots like yourself that I'm 'proper.' So please, continue thinking I'm a thug. Who knows, maybe I might pick your pocket or something.

And yeah, we're done. I have nothing to say to a self-centered ultra-nationalist. Just stay in Solitude and keep your bigotry to yourself. We have enough nuts here to deal with.

It never ceases to amaze me how many self haters our culture seems to produce. Calling Msr. Belfleur names because he disagrees with your particular brand of nonsense demonstrates in word if not deed your commitment to... tolerance.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#57 - 2013-04-18 22:49:26 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
... I thought you were referring to a person vampire, not the class of capacitor warfare systems. My bad.


There are people vampires? Oh my.


Oh Schere-suuolo... Never change.


Get of the GalNet before I take the console from your room. You're not supposed to be active yet. Doctor's order.


You cannot keep me chained to this bed forever, Anslo... Dammit. He sent another one of his white uniformed flunkies to sedate me again...

You're a facist, Anslo!


I promise to not change, just for you :)

I have asked Etana-haani to bring you some of the books from the main recovery ward, Pieter. They are good! They're also geared to not be too hard on the head. Some people say that they're a little immature, but I quite like them. Hopefully that will help alleviate the boredom.

Anslo, you can come get the latest model results from the alg desk whenever you'd like them. PS code is Gby4TanA8/115.
Anslo
Scope Works
#58 - 2013-04-18 23:03:35 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Anslo, you can come get the latest model results from the alg desk whenever you'd like them. PS code is Gby4TanA8/115.


Neat! Be there soon!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#59 - 2013-04-19 07:15:48 UTC
The two factions that most like to tout on about their endless virtues of open-mindedness arguing over how each feels threatened by the encroachment of the others' culture. Roll

By all means, carry on. This is very entertaining.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#60 - 2013-04-19 09:13:04 UTC
Something happens. The Federation is somehow involved. The whole Union get the blame for all the events, no matter what is done.

This is perfectly normal. There will never be an event involving this Union where people will universally express a positive reaction towards the Union. I guess that ultimately, the nature of this Federation and it's relationship with everyone else makes this impossible to achieve. Well, it's the usual, so I can live with that.

There is one thing, however, that bothers me greatly about this topic. Anslo. Do me a major service. Get over yourself.

Your conduct is, quite frankly, unacceptable. You speak and behave as if any viewpoint towards your own is illegal, anyone who voices them subject to a verbal and - as stated by yourself - actual beat-down.

This whole line of debate is saturated with it. Your tendencies towards this behavior is far older however. In this case, Pilot Emile Belfleur, makes perfectly viable arguments and presents them in a consistent and clear manner, and you go out of your way to threaten him with violence, call him a nationalist (I suppose this is a bad thing now) and a racist, pretty much pulling your justification for that insult out of thin air.

There are multiple viewpoints expressed in the news-feed that started this tread. None of them are "wrong" in any sense, they are after all viewpoints. But you Anslo, you my dear Hero Of Justice predictably attach yourself to the statements shared by the one's who rail on the Union for the handling of the Ray of Matar incident, and blast the other's as some sort of evil unto themselves. Very Black and white, very classy.

I would seriously appreciate it if you would become a more civilized debater and behave in a better way when you get involved in arguments like these. This is not as cut and simple as you seem to think, and you blunt-force approach will not work.

Once you do that, we can argue and discuss this as much as we wish and maybe some progress can be made.