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Dev Blog: Client modification, the EULA and you

First post First post
Author
Slumberg
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#321 - 2013-04-18 18:07:36 UTC
Fishsticks Fred wrote:
Where's the CSM on this?


They got banned for logging on to eve-central.
Artctura
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#322 - 2013-04-18 18:08:31 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Can we *ALSO* get this from CCP Stillman? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd really prefer it to come from the person in charge of the people with the ban button.
CCP Peligro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#323 - 2013-04-18 18:08:52 UTC
Esmilis99 wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Now put it in the dev blog, or somewhere else visible. Page 16 of a random feedback thread is not a credible place


Yep, thanks, we are working on that. I just edited the OP, and the dev blog will be updated shortly.

CCP Peligro - Team Security

Danny Centauri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2013-04-18 18:08:55 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



What about multiboxing using isboxer should we be selling our alts in the character bazaar? Can any guidance be given to those of us who subscribe to *lots* of accounts on what we can and can't do.

If not a lot of us may choose to substantially reduce our holdings run a couple of accounts (easy to manual multibox no software) as without isboxer etc multiboxing is dead, which is a pity as its always been condoned in the past.

EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players.

Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#325 - 2013-04-18 18:08:56 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Beautiful CCP Peligro!

Now if only the Third Party Polices could make that clear. ;)
iskflakes
#326 - 2013-04-18 18:09:33 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns.


That was a fast consultation.


-

Ereilian
Doomheim
#327 - 2013-04-18 18:09:56 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Nice job CCP ;)

I don't understand why people are whinning here, except if they are not clean, of course...


You should understand this:

Are you using evemon? You too could be 'dirty', if you checked certain boxes in it.

Will CCP ban you? Who knows, it's their call!

Except of course that they point blank explained that they won't, and why.

You choose to ignore that.


Sorry Ranger calling BS on that piece of CCP propaganda. CCP have a record of unannounced "interpretation" changes despite multiple CS and GM replies over matters.

I wouldn't trust this bunch of code monkeys running the anti Botter team, they have taken out the low hanging fruit and are now trying desperately to justify their positions.

They KNOW who the RMT's are, they KNOW who the bots are. They just do not have the balls to take them on as they are a massive income stream for CCP. Rather they go after "warp to zero" script kiddies. Yeah that just sums up the pathetic leadership of the team.
Felix Sidius
Saints Among Sinners
#328 - 2013-04-18 18:10:27 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:


In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Why do you even mention cache-scraping here, if they are doing other illegal activities (ie., botting) ban them for that.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#329 - 2013-04-18 18:11:10 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Quite understandable, and I think this was just an attempt to put legitimate users minds at ease without shooting themselves in the foot at the same time.


Well, that worked well.


Ranger 1 wrote:

This is also likely why the Crest API is such a priority for them, as it could provide a safe and approved (and controllable) alternative to cache scraping when done.


That's all well and good, and I look forward to using programs that take full advantage of these useful new features! However, in the meantime-- while these features don't exist-- I'd prefer not to be on the "people we could ban if we felt like it" list for using perfectly legitimate 3rd party tools.

Understandable, but again, we are all already on the "We can ban you for any reason we deem appropriate" list... this really isn't any different.

It looks like they are looking at changing the EULA to be more specific this fall, so I think the reality of it is to just hang in there until that point in time.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2013-04-18 18:11:12 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.

Considering how you guys have happily made changes with serious consequences before, with barely a "oh hey so guys that thing you're doing that we've said before is totally okay? yeah, that's illegal now.", which can and probably will end up with "oh and hey I see you run evemon you're now in violation of the EULA *banhammer*".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#331 - 2013-04-18 18:12:01 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.


If someone is caught botting, then why does the legality of cache scraping matter at all?
iskflakes
#332 - 2013-04-18 18:13:18 UTC
So how often do we need to go back and check CCP Peligro's post for ninja edits?

Is once every 5 minutes for the next decade good enough?

I wouldn't want to accidentally be using EVE-MON while his response gets ninja edited.

-

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#333 - 2013-04-18 18:13:27 UTC
Felix Sidius wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.

Why do you even mention cache-scraping here, if they are doing other illegal activities (ie., botting) ban them for that.

Remeber the EVE-Uni market bot that got someone banned a while back? People tried to defend that on the grounds that it was “only cache scraping”.

This change puts a solid slug through both knees of that argument.
Ereilian
Doomheim
#334 - 2013-04-18 18:13:32 UTC
Kadl wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Beautiful CCP Peligro!

Now if only the Third Party Polices could make that clear. ;)



Sorry, you want us to believe that a random code monkey will just make his own decision? You want this to go away change the TOS and THEN we will believe you. CCP are the consummate "tell them what they want to hear and get them off my desk, we can **** them later", this time update the TOS and news item this and THEN we will believe you are serious.
Cebraio
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#335 - 2013-04-18 18:14:22 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.


Cool, then why not write this in the wiki? Blink
Calichta Mei
Federal Institute Service
#336 - 2013-04-18 18:14:25 UTC
Fishsticks Fred wrote:
Where's the CSM on this?


There is a CSM ?
CCP Peligro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#337 - 2013-04-18 18:15:42 UTC
Artctura wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Can we *ALSO* get this from CCP Stillman? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd really prefer it to come from the person in charge of the people with the ban button.


Stillman is not in charge of the people with the ban button, he is CCPs Security Analyst.
Our boss is GM Solomon, VP of Customer Relationship Management.

The word comes from Team Security as well as CCPs Legal department. It is official and you can quote me on it! Big smile

CCP Peligro - Team Security

Cebraio
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#338 - 2013-04-18 18:15:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Felix Sidius wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.

Why do you even mention cache-scraping here, if they are doing other illegal activities (ie., botting) ban them for that.

Remeber the EVE-Uni market bot that got someone banned a while back? People tried to defend that on the grounds that it was “only cache scraping”.

This change puts a solid slug through both knees of that argument.

That defense was wrong though, because CCP was quite confident that he also used a bot to manipulate orders. So cache-scraping wasn't the issue here. Thus, they should not make it an issue.
Ereilian
Doomheim
#339 - 2013-04-18 18:16:07 UTC
Innominate wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.


If someone is caught botting, then why does the legality of cache scraping matter at all?


Because due to a complete lack of ability they are probably using the cache as a detection system, probably scanning the cache for access times .. looking for the access pattern of market bots. It is one of the lowest level indicators that can be used to detect other activities.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#340 - 2013-04-18 18:16:10 UTC
Ereilian wrote:
Kadl wrote:
CCP Peligro wrote:
Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding cache scraping, we are listening and we truly appreciate your feedback.

After consulting with CCP Legal and Team Security, we are not prepared to amend the EULA at this time to address your concerns. However, your comments are good ones, and we will consider incorporating them with the next scheduled update to the EULA (expected this fall, 2013).

In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses.



Beautiful CCP Peligro!

Now if only the Third Party Polices could make that clear. ;)



Sorry, you want us to believe that a random code monkey will just make his own decision? You want this to go away change the TOS and THEN we will believe you. CCP are the consummate "tell them what they want to hear and get them off my desk, we can **** them later", this time update the TOS and news item this and THEN we will believe you are serious.

Official blog post being ammended.
EULA/TOS documents ammended at the next opportunity (this fall).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.