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[news] Minmatar residents of Federation express growing concern

Author
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1 - 2013-04-17 17:10:17 UTC
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/minmatar-residents-of-federation-express-growing-concern/

"However, it is not merely cultural misunderstandings that has Minmatar within the Federation concerned. Ramius Throten, a Minmatar who has been living in the Federation for several years, explained why he is unsurprised by the shootings. 'Even though most Gallente welcome us, we are still looked at as oddities.'

He added, 'We're the outsiders; we're marrying their children or buying their property. Because there are so many of us, they see us changing their culture and are afraid. For all their talk about being inclusive, what some people want is for everyone to become them. Few people are hostile, but it's very dehumanizing.'"

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Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2 - 2013-04-17 17:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Admittedly, this article looks to be more of a fluff 'response' piece than a news article, but relevant for those of us who consider demographic trends a sign of the future.

It's easy to claim to pluralism and acceptance when participating in an essentially monolithic culture; it's far more difficult when confronted with being 'accepting' of world views, traditions, or cultural norms that aren't included in said monolithic culture. Hopefully, though, this worry won't play out, and the Federation will achieve the ideal it aspires to.

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Adreena Madeveda
Sebiestor Tribe
#3 - 2013-04-18 06:04:40 UTC
"Gallente citizens of matarri ethnicity" : it's my understanding of the Federation's ideals that it shouldn't be a problem. In fact, as I understand those ideals, it should simply be phrased as "Gallente citizens" and one's ethnicity and cultural background simply shrugged off as his personal history.

It's not the case, obviously. Minmatar have lived in the Federation for quite a bit of time now, yet are still treated like they arrived last week.

I guess some will blame the Federation, saying that its ideals are a fallacy, a sham, that its inclusiveness only extend to those who accept to be shaped by its mould.
Some will blame the Minmatar, stiff-necked and unable to compromise.
And of course, some will blame both.

I'm not sure who to blame, I'm not even sure there is someone to blame. But it's obvious something, somewhere, went the wrong way.

...................\o\ /o/...................

Ran Kullervo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-04-18 08:16:27 UTC
Perhaps the Gallente understand something that we don't - that deciding someone's fate before they've had a chance to do anything is morally questionable at best.

I don't wish the woman any harm, but she's just like anyone else.
Anslo
Scope Works
#5 - 2013-04-18 13:22:20 UTC
Quote:
A student at the University of Caille said, “Well, if they didn't want to live like Gallente, why did they come to the Federation? They obviously wanted to get away from the Republic, so why are they complaining that this isn't it? If they'd rather live in the Republic, it's still there for them.”


Ignorance. Nothing but ignorance. I'm honestly ashamed to see a student from my Alma Mater speak in such a way. I'm even more ashamed to see what the meaning of the Federation is being twisted every day because of a few idiots who don't understand another culture. You'd think we'd learn from history with the Caldari; just because someone's customs are different does not mean they should not live within the Federation.

We're a melting pot, a big cluster of cultures from everywhere. That's what the Federation is supposed to be about. Walk around Caille and you might think you're on an old fashion Gallente street one minute, then turn a corner and swear you were on Athra the next, then turn ANOTHER corner and wonder when the hell you jumped onto a street on New Caldari Prime. As long as you obey the written laws of the land and your customs don't break them (i.e. murder to sacrifice a human or something), then said culture shouldn't be targeted or seen as weird.

Also, the Quafe worker got me a bit too. Patient? They should be patient with US? WE should be patient and accepting of those who come TO the Federation. The more different the traditions (within law), the better we all come out. More education, more enrichment, more brotherhood.

To me, the Federation isn't just about democracy or the Constitution or some such. It was supposed to be an example of what can happen when cultures and races come and live together under one banner without giving up what makes themselves, them. And by taking those traditions and values and mixing them all together, you come out with something complex, unique, and wonderful.

Sadly, I've been slowly seeing ultra nationalism reminiscent of the Caldari War era creep back into view. It's not wide spread, but it's there. Just look at the sentiments of come of my fellow citizens. We're not ALL like that I'll tell you now, but it sucks to see even a few thinking that way. What's happening to my home.

Yes I know this isn't laced with profanity like my petition, but I'm too tired to get angry. I've been working 48 hours straight and I'm still feeling weird despite a nap. That and I can't get angry about this anymore. I'm just ashamed.

But for those of you who may be a fan of my bluntness, I'll be happy to oblige.

**** racists asshats.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-04-18 13:58:59 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Walk around Caille and you might think you're on an old fashion Gallente street one minute, then turn a corner and swear you were on Athra the next, then turn ANOTHER corner and wonder when the hell you jumped onto a street on New Caldari Prime.


Silly man, why do you have so many corners? With such convoluted footpaths, it's only an eventuality that somebody gets hurt.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-04-18 14:04:21 UTC
While I can understand your irritation Anslo, I'm far more concerned at the moment with the trend amongst new capsuleers to take the news from the local and interplanetary newsfeeds, choose short and heavily biased quotes from them, and then post them to IGS as if the articles were their own.

The newsfeed is there for a reason people. Let the professionals handle it.
Remark upon the news if you wish, but simply re posting it as if it were your own is at best plagiarism and at worst an attempt at propoganda.


Seven Tribes.
One Matari People.
Anslo
Scope Works
#8 - 2013-04-18 14:06:47 UTC
Halete wrote:
Silly man, why do you have so many corners? With such convoluted footpaths, it's only an eventuality that somebody gets hurt.


We like corners. They have cafes and restaurants.

Also, Msr. Chagangan, the article isn't completely inaccurate. Trust me, I live there.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#9 - 2013-04-18 14:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinzel Nikulainen
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
While I can understand your irritation Anslo, I'm far more concerned at the moment with the trend amongst new capsuleers to take the news from the local and interplanetary newsfeeds, choose short and heavily biased quotes from them, and then post them to IGS as if the articles were their own.


Fairly sure these are here to facilitate discussion. That and that only a very dense individual could mistake people citing a source as 'plagiarizing'.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-04-18 14:47:34 UTC
Okay, so, tribals come to live into wastebin of our universe and are complaining that there is actually junk there. How cute.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#11 - 2013-04-18 14:52:08 UTC
The only culture within the Federation which is expected to compromise its own identity and bend over backwards to accommodate everybody else is, sadly enough, the Gallente culture itself.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-04-18 15:01:15 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
The only culture within the Federation which is expected to compromise its own identity and bend over backwards to accommodate everybody else is, sadly enough, the Gallente culture itself.


It is a struggle for me to perceive the issue, do you fear improvement, boy?

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Anslo
Scope Works
#13 - 2013-04-18 15:09:56 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
The only culture within the Federation which is expected to compromise its own identity and bend over backwards to accommodate everybody else is, sadly enough, the Gallente culture itself.


I'm with Halete man. I don't see it as bending over. I see it as augmenting ourselves.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#14 - 2013-04-18 15:32:37 UTC
Halete wrote:
It is a struggle for me to perceive the issue, do you fear improvement, boy?

If you want an actual reply to your question, Captain, kindly consider a more polite form of address. I do not answer to "boy".
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-04-18 15:41:50 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
Halete wrote:
It is a struggle for me to perceive the issue, do you fear improvement, boy?

If you want an actual reply to your question, Captain, kindly consider a more polite form of address. I do not answer to "boy".


Do you prefer twin-spirit? Maybe girl?

Perhaps fool? Although fool might not be considered polite in your particular circles, it is certainly a deserving title for yourself.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#16 - 2013-04-18 16:00:31 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I'm with Halete man. I don't see it as bending over. I see it as augmenting ourselves.

I'm obviously of a different opinion, Captain. While I am not necessarily opposed to some form of interaction between cultures (except in those cases where cultural incompatibility has been decisively proven by history, such as between us and the Caldari), I believe such interaction should in most cases stop well short of cultural absorption, by either party.

More than that, though, this entire thing is a matter of respect and courtesy to other people in their homes. If I were to visit - or even move to - Athra, I would make sure to remain mindful and respectful of the customs and traditions already in place there. If I were to visit Pator, that same rule applies, and I sympathize completely with those Matari who oppose foreign intrusion into their own private affairs. Likewise, if I were to visit another person in his or her home, I would not presume to tell them how to decorate it, unless explicitly invited to give my opinion, of course.

However, the same rule applies in reverse, too. Those who come from abroad to settle on our homeworld need to realize and appreciate that it is a place with history and traditions stretching back thousands of years, the cradle of a culture and the roots of one of the great civilizations of New Eden. They should tread as softly and respectfully on that ground as they would expect us to do on their homeworlds, and in their homes. And if we accept that they don't, then we are bending over backwards.
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#17 - 2013-04-18 16:17:31 UTC
Halete wrote:
Do you prefer twin-spirit? Maybe girl?

Perhaps fool? Although fool might not be considered polite in your particular circles, it is certainly a deserving title for yourself.

I prefer to block you, Captain. Fly safe.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2013-04-18 16:20:03 UTC
Halete wrote:
Emile Belfleur wrote:
Halete wrote:
It is a struggle for me to perceive the issue, do you fear improvement, boy?

If you want an actual reply to your question, Captain, kindly consider a more polite form of address. I do not answer to "boy".


Do you prefer twin-spirit? Maybe girl?

Perhaps fool? Although fool might not be considered polite in your particular circles, it is certainly a deserving title for yourself.


How trite.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-04-18 16:33:17 UTC
If I may return this to topic I find it very tiring how people can't or won't respect authority, those of status what have you. The news link here goes on about how a revered matari was injured and the gallenteans shrug it off.

If you were to take two ditch diggers and one throws a handful of dirt into a co workers face he would get a punch in the noes and rightly so.
If one was to throw a handful of dirt at the foreman he would be fired.
If one was to throw a handful of dirt at a passing law enforcement officer they would be arrested.

The federation some times is to quick to paint everyone equal but at the same time wants the order that goes with respect of authority. If that authority is not recognized or even distracted it should be punished if some was to throw a handful or dirt at them.

I'm not advocating that I respect the Matari traditions regarding their status system but to out and out dismiss it is foolish at best.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#20 - 2013-04-18 16:34:43 UTC
Mr. Chagangan; I assure you that I am not seeking to claim the article as my own. It simply seemed something worth commenting on, and any comment should naturally be preceded by a reference to the source article. The quote selected seemed to be an fair selection of the Matari response to perceived Gallente non-acceptance.

That said, by starting a single exchange sourced with the article, we avoid the diaspora that sometimes occurs where a dozen different pilots see fit to start their own threads, ultimately hampering discussion.

Now, administrative matters aside, the meat of the issue:

Anslo, your spirit and your desire on this matter does the Gallente ideal justice. I wonder, though, about 'turning a corner.' Is it possible that the formation of ghettos, of racial neighborhoods is representative of a failure to integrate? Even if we don't wish the non-Gallente members of the Federation to integrate completely, to melt into the pot and become a homogenous mush, the separation of groups into disparate districts makes it easier to remain insulated from other cultures.

Ultimately, though, I suppose that this article represents a certain fact of nature: we understand others' actions by projecting onto them how we ourselves would act or feel. From my admittedly outsider's perspective, the Gallente view seems to be that celebrities are interchangeable, fame is transient, predestination is enslavement to the will of others. These beliefs don't necessarily work well with Matari ones, and could easily explain why the emotional Matari response baffled the Gallente.

All that aside, though, I hope that the Matari find the Federation an increasingly accepting place to live, and that the Federation approaches the ideal it aspires to -- without the cultural imperialism.

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