Player Features and Ideas Discussion

C'mon, who feels pain because of his pixels exploded?

New players (or older players in blinged ships), generally. I meant psychological pain (ie extreme annoyance and/or anger/rage), not physical pain,obviously. You can tell this to be the case every time you hear someone go rant-mental in local after getting their ship ganked.

Lol. You're making a series of false assumptions. I didn't say anywhere that I suffer psychological pain because of anything in any game but from watching local chat channels and reading anecdotal evidence on forums etc. it appears that some people do. Especially when they're either new to the game or when they've been closeted in high sec gathering a false sense of security for enough time to build a bling ship but not know how to protect it from ganks.

Stating that I'm not ready for video games let alone life in general is quite amusing and just goes to show how little you grasped of what the big boys are discussing [pats poor child on the head]. There there, things will look better after you've had your milk and cookies.

No, absolutely, it does advertise itself as a harsh universe. I'm certainly not advocating changing that just like I haven't been advocating the proposed change in this thread which I've managed to accidentally derail and therefore will be leaving.

Basically put, I disagree with the actions of those who pick on new players or players completely unable to defend themselves in exactly the same way I disagree with the actions of "bullies" in real life. Do I think that EvE should be changed to do anything about this? No, absolutely not. It's one of the great things about eve and that's why I disagree with the OP regarding stopping corp mates from killing each other.

It is merely not in my moral makeup to do such things or agree with others doing it on a moral level but that's a personal viewpoint and not a viewpoint I think should be foisted on the game as a whole as it removes an awful lot of the potential choices and excitement out of the game. Even in high sec you should always be prepared to fight and/or lose one's ship whenever you undock. Making it actually safe would also make it boring.

@OP - Please accept my apologies for accidentally derailing your thread. I'll leave you to it now.

Sorry, I know I said I'd GTFO of this thread but I really wanted to respond to this because I agree with you totally. The or is certainly the best way to go for EvE.

Whilst I will fight to protect the weak or innocent (or at least try to) I will also fight for the right of other people to do the opposite within EvE because the reason I've played EvE for years and played most other MMOs for a short period each is because EvE allows freedom of action and consequence where other MMOs mostly cut off freedom in order to avoid consequence.

Well said. Very well said.

I would hate to subscribe to your idea of school system, in where the problem of bullying would probably be left up to the bullied. There are many times when being brave and fighting back gets you nothing but a nose bleed or a broken arm and in which case, outside intervention is necessary.

What kind of example would you be setting for a school when bullying is enabled by having the problem ignored by authorities on the basis of some twisted attempt to make the bullied overcome adversity on their own and 'toughen up' so to speak?
I understand the intention you're trying to convey, but the means cannot be justified in that case.
Regardless, I don't think this a good analogy to draw on anyway.

Anyway on-topic, the point is that there are limits to how harsh, parts of EVE, are intended to be.
Metagaming can turn ordinary gameplay into grief tools and this is when CCP is required to intervene.

Freeform contracts were removed due to excessive use for scamming.
Auto-shutdown on remote assistance modules was introduced to stop the high risk of players using criminal flags to destroy entire logi/fleet chains in Incursions.

Highsec AWOXing needs some tempering - to say nothing of the fact that AWOXers are free to use as much neutral RR as they want without consequence.

It happens. Hell I wouldn't call our own bunch exactly cuddly - still, extremely mistreating your members is asking for being robbed/awoxed/end up without them. But yes, those are the lies we force-feed ourselves, along with "OUR SOV MAKES US AWESOME" and "WE CAN PVP MKAY GUYS GET ON DA TITAN."

Asking for the "friendly" fire thing to be removed is a prime example of carebear mentality - give them a finger they'll take a hand. Gank nerfs, concord buffs, all-time low of hisec ganks, forcing gankers to find new realms of stupidity to exploit.

There were mechanics that had no sense (I'd actually agree on insurance removal nerf.) but CCP can't just fix stupid...

(Also Psychotic Monk 4 CSM)

I was heavily bullied in Elementary and Middle School. I was pretty much one of the scrawniest children in my school, while always over-participating in class and scoring top-marks on every test. I was often told by administrators that I should toughen up, that I should ignore them, and even occasionally that I should fight back. No matter what I did, none of these seemed to change my social status within the school, and I was always picked on until highschool. What changed in highschool? I became a social butterfly, making friends beyond count to the point my old bullies left me alone. That's how you stop bullying, you make friends.

The best way to destroy you, is to isolate you. Point out to everyone why you are a terrible person to hang out with, point out how your faults weaken anyone standing next to you, and show why you aren't worth anyone's support. And once you are utterly alone, I can easily overpower and brutalize and violate you without fear. That's the essence of bullying.

The solution to bullying is to covertly place the bullied into an atmosphere where they can make friends. Sometimes this requires being away from the bully's presence, sometimes this requires addressing their social inadequacies, sometimes it requires publicly standing up to the bully.

Unfortunately, our schools instead focus on "zero tolerance laws" which remove personal responsibility, and simply attempt to make our schools a super-safe zone. So we get common sense removed, and end up with amazingly dumb incidents: Children receiving expulsion from school for having safety scissors, kids expelled for giving their teachers their boyscout pocket-knife they accidentally brought to school, and tons of other ridiculous reasons. And guess what... we have just as much bullying in schools as ever, not to mention just as much violence there too!

In EvE, this no different: Making it so people can't AWOX you, or can't suicide gank you, or can't bump your precious ship is completely the wrong direction. The best solution to bullying is to make friends, and that's all that EvE needs. I know that making friends in a cold dark universe where trust is a dangerous thing is difficult, but this is where CCP should change the universe. There aren't a lot of friendship-building activities available for strangers to come together (Incursions & FW are pretty much the only community-building activities strangers regularly partake in), and frankly, this is what needs to be remedied.

Once you have a group of people to play with, AWOXers are a welcome disruption that creates conflict and ultimately delivers massive content. Do you have any idea how many capitals, supercarriers, and Titans have died because of revenge plots, where AWOXing is a major component of the story?

buff hisec, nerf CONCORD

You're doing it wrong. You're trying to have people use brute force against someone who has outsmarted them. And since they can't, you're trying to give them more tools to use brute force, which won't work in the first place.

Why are you trying to out-rep and out-dps someone who has already determined it to be mathematically impossible?

You don't need to shoot his neutral logi. You need to bring a blackbird, warp in at 50k, jam him and warp the prize away. No one can fly one? Bump him away, web him down and throw range scripted sensor damps on him. Having trouble bumping him? Bump the corp member he's shooting at to safety.

Nope. Can't think. Must. Kill.
That's how the people who don't understand what's going on get concorded shooting the logi.

If you really want to kill him, you can worry about it after you got what he was after off the field. If you still have tackle on him tanking the damage, come back with Tornadoes and just alpha him despite reps.

PS: There's a reason why we bring not one, but two logies when we bring some new guy along with our shineys. I'm also "too tired to dual box" and leave my Caldari alt docked.