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Sentry guns pointless and stupid - buff them

First post
Author
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-04-18 09:07:43 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
I still want to know why the OP was flying a t1 industrial through low-sec
I fly T1 Industrials through lowsec... not enough skill points for anything else. I send a scout ahead and the T1 follows... I haven't been caught yet, but I will.

You use the tools you have.
Anunzi
Solace Corp
#82 - 2013-04-18 09:10:19 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
I still want to know why the OP was flying a t1 industrial through low-sec
I fly T1 Industrials through lowsec... not enough skill points for anything else. I send a scout ahead and the T1 follows... I haven't been caught yet, but I will.

You use the tools you have.




Fair comment.


But the real question is, when the inevitable happens, will you deal with it and move on, or come to the forums and whine like a 12 year old for CCP to change games mechanics like the op??

"It was the way she said it, Rimmer, to rhyme with scum"

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-04-18 09:25:33 UTC
Drunken Bum wrote:

Getting caught by a gatecamp in this game is completely optional. Dont choose to get caught.
1. I would respond... yes it is optional (a good option).
2. I would say the opposite... get caught.

I think it is better for new players who may want to experience other parts of the game than highsec to go to lowsec early: with low value ships. Losing a ship should not be the end of the world. Learning about risk and reward is important.

The advise I have been given by multiple sources is for me to get my PvP combat toon 10 T1 frigates, fit them out, and then take them to lowsec and lose them all, but learn something for each loss.

A T1 is a cheap investment if knowledge is gained.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#84 - 2013-04-18 09:27:44 UTC
To be honest, it's a bestower, laugh it off and buy a new one. Research a few alt routes and look on your map to see if there is any aggression in the low sec systems you are jumping into. Also, gate guns are working as intended. At least campers aren't reliably able to use instalocking frigates so they can fit more alpha into the camp.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#85 - 2013-04-18 09:29:43 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
I still want to know why the OP was flying a t1 industrial through low-sec
I fly T1 Industrials through lowsec... not enough skill points for anything else. I send a scout ahead and the T1 follows... I haven't been caught yet, but I will.

You use the tools you have.

Difference between the OP and you is that you used the tools at your disposal to protect your cargo while the OP just yet "screw it! Its CCP's fault if I die"

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2013-04-18 09:30:02 UTC
Anunzi wrote:



But the real question is, when the inevitable happens, will you deal with it and move on, or come to the forums and whine like a 12 year old for CCP to change games mechanics like the op??

I already lost one a T1 in 0.0, plus a frigate I used as a fast courier in lowsec., and two pods in lowsec.

I think some game mechanics do need adjustment, but my losses were my mistakes.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#87 - 2013-04-18 09:31:43 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
I fly T1 Industrials through lowsec... not enough skill points for anything else. I send a scout ahead and the T1 follows... I haven't been caught yet, but I will.

You use the tools you have.


Same. I'm more paranoid about flying an indy through high sec than I am about flying it through low or null.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#88 - 2013-04-18 09:33:43 UTC
How to ensure you will never be able to join a corp in eve #145: Making this thread.


Its taking increasing levels of self-deception to continue to convince myself that these threads are just dedicated trolls and that people aren't actually this stupid.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-04-18 09:34:42 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
There isn't enough risk for stupid griefer pirates camping gates in these low-sec shitholes I have to pass through on occasion. Even small ships can tank the damage - some huge tank isn't required.

Buff the stupid sentry guns. There shouldn't be zero risk and 100% reward for these idiots. It's dumb.

That is all.
You lost a ship and cargo. You have paid in ISK... what did you learn?

Gategun suck? The aren't going to change today or tomorrow, what can you do differently to compensate? You have to change what you do to beat this situation. You are presented with a challenge.... how do you respond?
Anunzi
Solace Corp
#90 - 2013-04-18 09:35:18 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Anunzi wrote:



But the real question is, when the inevitable happens, will you deal with it and move on, or come to the forums and whine like a 12 year old for CCP to change games mechanics like the op??

I already lost one a T1 in 0.0, plus a frigate I used as a fast courier in lowsec., and two pods in lowsec.

I think some game mechanics do need adjustment, but my losses were my mistakes.



Exactly. I think the Op could learn a lot from your attitude Sir.

"It was the way she said it, Rimmer, to rhyme with scum"

Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-04-18 09:42:12 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
We could make the whole system a lot fairer.

Just make all sentry guns insta kill anyone that comes within 200 km of them.

so this way it effects everyone exactly the same.

Lol


It'll effect their death.


English skills.

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.

darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-04-18 09:54:12 UTC
Just wondering which part of "Extremely Dangerous" makes people think "My untanked industrial will be unharmed"

I agree that gate camps are annoying and even as a somewhat experienced pirate I occasionally lose things to them (even a pod recently), but that's part of the whole "risk vs. reward" thing. When you go to low-sec you do so because apparently there's something there that's more valuable to you than the corresponding thing in high-sec. If you want NPC protection stay in high-sec, if you want the benefits that low-sec brings learn to live with the consequences.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#93 - 2013-04-18 10:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Roime wrote:


If you'd really enjoy risk, taking care of yourself and reap the riches of lowsec, you'd live there, and not in boring hisec.


Assumtions make a fool of you. I live in wormhole space, and frequent lowsec all the time! I don't fall into the highsec crowd, but am keenly aware of the challenges they face. There is little incentive for them to risk lowsec. Though the OP's example is poor, industrials are fodder in lowsec unscouted, it doesn't change much if he had chosen a different ship. Most catecamps are more than sufficent to kill a solo player, especially the general highsec non-PvP experienced type. Lowsec is nothing more than a buffer zone between high and null, with the pirates within attempting to catch anything passing through. And though its more than possible to pass through lowsec realtively easily for players that know what they are doing, we're talking about players that don't. The pirates have been very successful in creating the image of lowsec being a deathtrap, and its an underpopulated wasteland as a result.

I honestly believe, that by discouraging easy gate-camps via gategun buffs will open the door to highsec players. Allowing them to risk traveling to lowsec for the potential rewards within, with a reduced chance of immediate OMGWTFPWNAGE. The result? More targets for pirates, and more carebears becoming not carebears. Cool The arguements against these suggested changes are poor, in the extreme. It boils down to players selfishly defending their play style, with disregard of the improvement of EvE as a whole. Do you really need to protect the gate-camp easy-mode? Are you completely unable to find targets running sites or mining in lowsec systems?

I guess nothing beats mashing F1 when someone appears through a gate.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#94 - 2013-04-18 10:04:24 UTC
darmwand wrote:
Just wondering which part of "Extremely Dangerous" makes people think "My untanked industrial will be unharmed"


Hiseccers were developed from the same raw material as people who require "WARNING - HOT CONTENTS" printed on their coffee mugs.

These 2nd generation tards go further, they need someone to stop them from spilling hot coffee on themselves. This was achieved by reducing their attention span to first two letters of a sentence and has proven extremely efficient.



.

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-04-18 10:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Beast of Revelations wrote:


While I'm not entirely sure I agree, the point I made was that the risk/reward for this kind of activity seriously needs to be adjusted.
Absolutely... change that risk/reward ratio. It is your job to make that adjustment. You have that ability.

A. Maybe you need to train up for a bloackade runner.
B. Maybe you just scout the gate first... perhaps it isn't always camped.
C. Perhaps there is another gate you can scout that isn't camped.

You have been given a gift. A puzzle that if you solve it, will expand your abilities and knowledge of Eve. You will be a better player, make more ISK, and have more fun.

This is an opportunity for you. It may not look like it now, but it is forcing you to expand you game play. Months from now you may look back and be thankful this happened.

I am serious.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2013-04-18 10:10:45 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
EVE is the last bastion of the stupid pvper. Mindless and skilless activities with essentially zero risk are rewarded. The tears would certainly flow if sentry guns were buffed but it is needed for this game to be less of a joke amongst the pvp gamer community.


Tell me, if these pvpers are "Mindless and skilless" what does that make you victims?

Sentries are fine, use the tools available to you and this will not be an issue.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#97 - 2013-04-18 10:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Xen Solarus wrote:


Assumtions make a fool of you. I live in wormhole space, and frequent lowsec all the time! I don't fall into the highsec crowd, but am keenly aware of the challenges they face. There is little incentive for them to risk lowsec. Though the OP's example is poor, industrials are fodder in lowsec unscouted, it doesn't change much if he had chosen a different ship. Most catecamps are more than sufficent to kill a solo player, especially the general highsec non-PvP experienced type. Lowsec is nothing more than a buffer zone between high and null, with the pirates within attempting to catch anything passing through. And though its more than possible to pass through lowsec realtively easily for players that know what they are doing, we're talking about players that don't. The pirates have been very successful in creating the image of lowsec being a deathtrap, and its an underpopulated wasteland as a result.


It wasn't even directed specifically at you. Your post does bring up some valid points, though:

1) little incentive to risk is an issue, but it is caused by ample rewards available risk-free, in hisec
2) clueless will die in this game, but it has nothing to do with sec status- it happens to bads everywhere
3) that image is not a reflection of true state of things, and it was not created by lowseccers, but hiseccers justifying their risk adversity and fears

Quote:
I honestly believe, that by discouraging easy gate-camps via gategun buffs will open the door to highsec players. Allowing them to risk traveling to lowsec for the potential rewards within, with a reduced chance of immediate OMGWTFPWNAGE. The result? More targets for pirates, and more carebears becoming not carebears. Cool The arguements against these suggested changes are poor, in the extreme. It boils down to players selfishly defending their play style, with disregard of the improvement of EvE as a whole. Do you really need to protect the gate-camp easy-mode? Are you completely unable to find targets running sites or mining in lowsec systems?

I guess nothing beats mashing F1 when someone appears through a gate.


Gategun buffs would do two things- disencourage and decrease PVP between people on gates who actually want to fight, and change the composition of gate camps to be even more overpowered. As they are, they already seriously reduce engagements between small ship pilots.

Furthermore, even as we speak, only very few gates are actually camped. If somebody is unable to avoid these with all the available information and ingame and OOG tools, do you think that person would actually survive in lowsec then?

You also hang on the misconception that lowseccers want more soft targets around. Ganking a barge or indy is not a good fight, and the ransom potential is low. Ganking a shiny PVE ship might be more lucrative, but guess what- these already roam lowsec plexes as they please and the only possibility to catch them is, tadaa, a very lucky and dedicated gate camp. (I've been on both sides of these hunts, and they prey has all the advantages)

FIY I've never been in a gate camp in my life so I don't have any personal interest to defend that style of PVP, I've lost many ships to camps and they were all my fault and would have been in my power to avoid.

We cannot change the game to cater to lazyness and carelessness, it would break the game.

.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-04-18 10:31:21 UTC
Roime wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
The pirates have been very successful in creating the image of lowsec being a deathtrap, and its an underpopulated wasteland as a result.

...
3) that image is not a reflection of true state of things, and it was not created by lowseccers, but hiseccers justifying their risk adversity and fears
...

yea, exactly!

Killboard can prove this fact: carebear losses usually contain only "carebear risk adversity" and "carebear fears" as attackers.
Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-04-18 10:34:43 UTC
Roime wrote:

Furthermore, even as we speak, only very few gates are actually camped. If somebody is unable to avoid these with all the available information and ingame and OOG tools, do you think that person would actually survive in lowsec then?


This, very much. I live in Placid and in the whole region I know a grand total of two gates that are regularly camped, on the others you would have to be extremely unlucky to get caught.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#100 - 2013-04-18 10:36:11 UTC
Funnily, killboards prove the fact that people who lose most ships in lowsec aren't carebears.

http://www.eve-census.com/regions

Of the few bear lossmails we were able to find during this scientific study, we established some statistics

Weapons used:

Carebear Stupidity II (97%)
Unaware Lalalala (3%)

.