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Sentry guns pointless and stupid - buff them

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GreenSeed
#41 - 2013-04-18 03:51:00 UTC
arguing about buffing or nerfing is pointless. they don't need to be buffed, they need to be brought in line with what cruisers were buffed to. the balance wont be changed because sentry guns will do the same damage they did before, proportional to their targets ehp.
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2013-04-18 03:51:25 UTC
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Too many people are able to manage these risks just fine for people to take your complaints seriously OP.


Because no one else has this problem but me.

Quote:
When others are able to navigate freighters safely through low, null, and w-space just fine, we can't help but think the problem isn't the game.


Because freighters can be instaganked by a couple of cruisers in seconds. Because freighters fly around unsupported by their corps and alliances.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2013-04-18 03:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Quote:
Either way, going up against T2/T3 combat ships in a T1 hauler, unsupported, is a very very bad idea.
Check out the big brain on this one.
…which means that your notion that the fault lies in the sentry guns is, shall we say, ill-informed.

Quote:
I didn't say 'adjust the risk/reward ratio for low-sec griefer douchebags who shrug off hits from sentries while sitting in cruisers, and have no consequences whatsoever for their actions.' No, I said what you just said above.
Since you're asking them to face risk in a 3-v-0 situation (zero, because that's about the combat capability of your hauler), then yes, you are indeed pretty much saying that. If you want there to be consequences, it is your job to provide them. Welcome to lowsec.

Oh, and no, they were not griefers, and nothing you've presented so far offers anything that would remotely categorise them as douchebags either.

Quote:
Because freighters can be instaganked by a couple of cruisers in seconds. Because freighters fly around unsupported by their corps and alliances.
Yes. Or, well… no, but that's because they don't make such silly and obvious mistakes.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#44 - 2013-04-18 03:53:43 UTC
I still want to know why the OP was flying a t1 industrial through low-sec

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-04-18 03:55:13 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Because freighters can be instaganked by a couple of cruisers in seconds. Because freighters fly around unsupported by their corps and alliances.


It doesn't matter how long they take to kill it, once it's tackled out of range of a gate it's dead

And yes people fly unsupported freighters through lowsec, they just do something you apparently don't: scout

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#46 - 2013-04-18 04:01:43 UTC
Quote:
You sure know a lot about a situation you weren't there to observe.


Yes, yes we do.

Because people make the same mistakes every day... and then come to complain about it.

You weren't prepared to go there, and that fact has nothing to do with the number of skill points you have. You simply made bad decisions that you wouldn't have made if you had taken a moment to think about it... and hopefully are not likely to again.

It's up to you and other players to either avoid the dangers of low and null sec, or provide the "consequences" that you desire. The game will not do it for you. The only thing the game will do for you is provide the tools for you to deal with the situation in one of those two ways, and in low sec will give you a small assist in doing so.

Worst possible ship.
Worst possible preparation.
Worst possible method.
Far from the worst possible end result.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#47 - 2013-04-18 04:13:42 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Too many people are able to manage these risks just fine for people to take your complaints seriously OP.


Because no one else has this problem but me.

Quote:
When others are able to navigate freighters safely through low, null, and w-space just fine, we can't help but think the problem isn't the game.


Because freighters can be instaganked by a couple of cruisers in seconds. Because freighters fly around unsupported by their corps and alliances.


I wouldn't fly through egg with an untanked hauler, so no I don't have this problem.

The whole idea of losing an iteron V in egg is just ********, any iteron V pilot is mere days from a viator and covops cloak, and as a viator pilot, I'd still have some concerns about just jumping into egg or rancer with it (its not a 100% safe activity), just as I'd have concerns about undocking it at whatever lowsec station I intended going to.

In the worst case scenario if I was hauling regularly to a semi busy station, I might need to either undock with pod or use a typical station camping ship to be able to scout the dock for exiting the hauler.

The notion of low security is inherently that you have to provide some of the security yourself, and an untanked hauler don't qualify as security.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#48 - 2013-04-18 04:13:45 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
There isn't enough risk for stupid griefer pirates camping gates in these low-sec shitholes I have to pass through on occasion. Even small ships can tank the damage - some huge tank isn't required.

Buff the stupid sentry guns. There shouldn't be zero risk and 100% reward for these idiots. It's dumb.

That is all.


watch for me, in local.... I might be one of those pirates....

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Boozer Hoover
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-04-18 04:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozer Hoover
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Quote:
So when you could have docked your industrial and jumped through the gate in a throwaway ship to ensure the coast is clear, you opted to simply jump into lowsec blindly?


Because you know I didn't do that. And because you know it isn't possible for people to jump to gate camp between the time I scout and the time I arrive in my industrial. And because you know they couldn't have been sitting there cloaked, therefore couldn't have been seen.

"Open your local!" Because you know that I didn't do that too, although I can tell you that keeping local open is entirely useless, as there are always people in every low-sec shithole, so it tells you nothing.

You sure know a lot about a situation you weren't there to observe.

Quote:
Either way, going up against T2/T3 combat ships in a T1 hauler, unsupported, is a very very bad idea.


Check out the big brain on this one.

Quote:
Are you that bloody thick? Do you honestly think that you have the right to jump about EVE as you please, and not get attacked if you jump into the wrong place?


Because that's what I've said here many times - that I have the right to jump about EVE as I please without getting attacked. I didn't say 'adjust the risk/reward ratio for low-sec griefer douchebags who shrug off hits from sentries while sitting in cruisers, and have no consequences whatsoever for their actions.' No, I said what you just said above.



OP BRO, you dont get it do you?

If gate guns could be tanked by frigate, I bet they would have killed you in frigates and then you would be posting about how sentry guns are useless because they can be tanked by frigates.


But lets progress with your logic, sentry guns are weak because they cant kill tech 2 or tech 3 cruisers (or cruisers specifically equipped to be buffers)

SO LETS BUFF THEM OKAY

now with buffed gates only t3 and battlecruisers can tank them... guess what thats what the pirates would of used and you would still be dead

SO LETS BUFF THEM AGAIN

now with the even more buffed gates only command ships (t2 battlecruisers) and battleships can tank them... you would STILL BE DEAD

SO LETS BUFF THEM EVEN ******* MORE

now with these omnipotent gates that one shot any sub capitals, you would be safe thanks for reducing low sec to hi sec

OOOOOHH WAIT

with the new insta killing gates in low sec, you would then try jumping into null sec and this post would be about bubbles and how there is no gate guns in null

(GF op but seriously think about some other games if you cant handle eve)
Beast of Revelations
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2013-04-18 04:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Beast of Revelations
Boozer Hoover wrote:

OP BRO, you dont get it do you?

If gate guns could be tanked by frigate, I bet they would have killed you in frigates and then you would be posting about how sentry guns are useless because they can be tanked by frigates.


But lets progress with your logic, sentry guns are weak because they cant kill tech 2 or tech 3 cruisers (or cruisers specifically equipped to be buffers)

SO LETS BUFF THEM OKAY

now with buffed gates only t3 and battlecruisers can tank them... guess what thats what the pirates would of used and you would still be dead

SO LETS BUFF THEM AGAIN

now with the even more buffed gates only command ships (t2 battlecruisers) and battleships can tank them... you would STILL BE DEAD

SO LETS BUFF THEM EVEN ******* MORE

now with these omnipotent gates that one shot any sub capitals, you would be safe thanks for reducing low sec to hi sec


I was always under the impression that you had to have a somewhat serious commitment in personnel and firepower (tankpower) to go against sentry guns. I was always under the impression that this was essentially tanked battleships. I have read this and been told this on numerous occasions.

I didn't know that they nerfed sentries to be jokes.

I would have been fine with dying if I'd seen a serious gatecamp with battleships and the whole 9 yards, because I don't expect to be able to survive that, and I don't expect sentry guns to be a big deterrent in that situation. But I'm not fine dying to a couple of jackoffs camping a gate in a couple of cruisers while being shot at by sentry guns, and the guns doing nothing to them.

Quote:
(GF op but seriously think about some other games if you cant handle eve)


So that's what you people really want? People quitting Eve? I think the average IQ of posts here keeps going down and down.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2013-04-18 04:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Beast of Revelations wrote:
I was always under the impression that you had to have a somewhat serious commitment in personnel and firepower (tankpower) to go against sentry guns. I was always under the impression that this was essentially tanked battleships. I have read this and been told this on numerous occasions.
You read or have been told wrong. Or they were talking about highsec (where sentries still can be tanked fairly easily — a HIC is an excellent convoy farming ship… or was back when attacking convoys triggered sentry fire).

Quote:
I didn't know that they nerfed sentries to be jokes.
They didn't. They just changed their aggression rules to make them more fun for lowsec inhabitants.

Quote:
So that's what you people really want? People quitting Eve? I think the average IQ of posts here keeps going down and down.
With you leaving, it'll shoot right up. Roll
See how that works?
Boozer Hoover
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2013-04-18 04:44:20 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Boozer Hoover wrote:


[quote](GF op but seriously think about some other games if you cant handle eve)


So that's what you people really want? People quitting Eve? I think the average IQ of posts here keeps going down and down.



Not at all I hope you keep playing and flying indies full of goodies into gate camps and I hope oneday I am there to profit from it.


IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, indies are extremely weak ships to move stuff mainly between hisec systems.
If you truly need to go into lowsec to move stuff, covert ops haulers are damn near invincible (when piloted with a very modest amount of intelligence)

NOT TO MENTION
Jump freighters bypassing gates alltogether
Blackop battleships can also move smaller amounts of expensive goodies just as easy

All covert ships to move small amounts of goods (even in null sec they are tough to catch)


Low security space is just that LOW SECURITY, and there are plenty of ways to escape gate camps in low security.



SO YES I WANT YOU TO QUIT PLAYING IF, you truly believe that you should be safe in low sec taking the lowest skilled hauler in the game to move stuff in space that is not safe.

The only way, I believe to buff sentry guns would be to allow people to pay isk and minerals to upgrade them, and then going with the notion this is a sandbox and people can pee on your castle, It would then be possible for people to come along and crush your upgraded guns.
dark heartt
#53 - 2013-04-18 04:45:40 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:

I would have been fine with dying if I'd seen a serious gatecamp with battleships and the whole 9 yards, because I don't expect to be able to survive that, and I don't expect sentry guns to be a big deterrent in that situation. But I'm not fine dying to a couple of jackoffs camping a gate in a couple of cruisers while being shot at by sentry guns, and the guns doing nothing to them.

Quote:
(GF op but seriously think about some other games if you cant handle eve)


So that's what you people really want? People quitting Eve? I think the average IQ of posts here keeps going down and down.


So a gatecamp is only serious if it has battleships? Why? What is the difference between cruisers and battleships that makes one fine for camping and the other not. In any case you jumped in while flying a T1 INDUSTRIAL SHIP! Why didn't you fly something that makes more sense through low?

A cloaky hauler flown in the right way can get around almost any camp. I know this because I can do it on this character. I do it regularly.

As far as the quitting Eve part, I personally don't, unless the person quitting is whining or asking for changes that make no sense... LIKE YOU.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Drunken Bum
#54 - 2013-04-18 04:46:59 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Ok. Here's how you do that: don't go up against three combat ships with a transport.


Oh, because that's the decision I made, right? To go up against 3 combat ships in a transport?

Begone troll.

Getting caught by a gatecamp in this game is completely optional. Dont choose to get caught.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
Ai Shun
#55 - 2013-04-18 04:58:05 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Not everyone has the luxury of support. Not everyone has the luxury of a massive corporation or alliance to help them play the game. No, some people have to do everything on their own, by themselves.


True, but we all have star-maps and the ability to scout a gate in a shuttle before jumping something valuable through it. We all have access to intel channels and can ask questions in them. And we could all try to route around lowsec systems when we see X ships lost in the last hour.

Please tell me though that you were smart enough to use a Transport ship or a Blockade runner for a jaunt through lowsec. Or did you really fly a thin hulled, normal T1 industrial blind into lowsec?

Yes, yes you did. A Bestower. I'm betting you had Expanded Cargo Holds on that puppy too, aye?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#56 - 2013-04-18 05:03:36 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
There shouldn't be zero risk and 100% reward for these idiots. It's dumb.

So what you're asking for, is to be allowed to fly around lowsec in an industrial with zero risk and 100% reward. This has got to be a troll.

Oh god.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2013-04-18 05:14:42 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
I'm betting you had Expanded Cargo Holds on that puppy too, aye?

If he's actually the Bestower lost in Tannolen, then yes… and cargo opt rigs. And two afterburners. P
A massive 3k EHP against lasers, which is what that particular Bestower died to.
Boozer Hoover
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-04-18 05:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Boozer Hoover
Riot Girl wrote:
Beast of Revelations wrote:
There shouldn't be zero risk and 100% reward for these idiots. It's dumb.

So what you're asking for, is to be allowed to fly around lowsec in an industrial with zero risk and 100% reward. This has got to be a troll.


Nope he seems serious, he truly believes that a gatecamp to kill his 1 million isk bestower can and should ONLY be possible with the following

1 to 2 dozen fully fit tanked battle ships, = approximate cost of about 5-7 billion isk in ships to kill a bestower.




I imagine in his head the scenario should of played out something like this.

500k of crap in his cargo he takes the risk of jumping unscouted into low sec, ALAS when he loads grid he sees 20 battleships.
He holds cloak and decides he will just try breaking through the camp.

The fight begins his t1 bestower is SLOWLY being killed by 20 battleships, while the gate guns (GALLANTLY remain on his side) after the gate guns kill 4 or 5 battleships, they finally break his tank and die, but only after 4 or 5 pirate battleships die.


SERIOUSLY, when bestowers cost as much as battleships the above scenario might be possible but they dont even remotely cost the price of tech2 cruisers, so quit complaining and get over it.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2013-04-18 05:22:19 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
There isn't enough risk for stupid griefer pirates camping gates in these low-sec shitholes I have to pass through on occasion. Even small ships can tank the damage - some huge tank isn't required.

Buff the stupid sentry guns. There shouldn't be zero risk and 100% reward for these idiots. It's dumb.

That is all.

You are a funny little man and I bet your mum is a honorable fine person as well.
What you state is not true.
Just because you know nothing about sentry guns in lowsec (you probably never got shot by one) does not mean that you were dumb and stupid to post about it of corse. You are just biased it seems.

AND
U mad bro?
You sure seem mad!

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#60 - 2013-04-18 06:12:25 UTC
Beast of Revelations wrote:
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Too many people are able to manage these risks just fine for people to take your complaints seriously OP.


Because no one else has this problem but me.

Well, your probably not the only one, difference is the others learn from their mistakes and don't come to the forums to demand buffs. I lost a Mammoth to a low sec gate camp when I was starting out, I didn't do it again and again.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.