Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I like missiles because explosions

Edit: seriously though they should have a balanced amount of hp

It's just you. They're completely separate issues. The travel time ceases to matter beyond the first and last shot against a target. Any engagement that exceeds 2-3 rounds fired will benefit from the increased ROF. Taking the delay out and removing the ROF bonus only aids in situations in which you are firing a very limited number of rounds at single targets (fleet alpha doctrine for example).

Yeah, I already came to that conclusion. The CNR and Raven are both looking quite attractive. Hell, the Raven might actually come out better due to the ability to fit a T2 Accel and a T1 Rigor (+extra mid).

-Liang

Keep the faith.

I expected cool stuff from the cruise changes. As it stands, however, it's my view they've dialled it up passed 11.....


Hang in there for torp moves.

These are very good changes.

I am wondering if Raven/Phoon fleets become popular in a sniping role if people will actually start trying to using defender missiles to give some protection because at these long ranges they actually work. A little.

Well here is my feed back coupled with some math so i hope you enjoy:

Old phoon 2BCS, no implants, no heat, no rigs, Lv5 skills, T2 launchers, CN cruise.

DPS: 384

Now lets look at damage application. All ships shown have level 5 skills, are unfit except for an MWD. No other effects

Merlin: 22 DPS
Thrasher: 43 DPS
Thorax: 78 DPS
Brutix: 236 DPS
Drake: 307 DPS
Tempest: 343 DPS (Still not applying full damage to an MWD BS) Please explain to me why the proposed changes include a 10% decrease to explosion velocity? Cruise missile already cannot apply full DPS to an MWD BS.

Now that we have that established, lets look at the drake. Again with 2BCS HML II launchers, CN scourge no implants, no rigs, no drugs shoot at the same targets:

Drake HML DPS: 341

Merlin: 69
Thrasher: 118
Thorax: 186 (Cruiser sized weapon applying barely half of on paper DPS)
Brutix: 341
Drake: 341
Tempest: 341

I simply cannot understand what CCP is doing with missiles. Right now the best missile ships in the game are the 6 launcher RLM tengu, and the RLM cerberus / RLM Caracal. They both apply more damage to cruiser and smaller ships, while having comparable damage to BC / BS than HML currently have (after the nerf). Your current proposed cruise changes will help the PvE environment. However in the PvP environment, the current iteration of cruise missiles are in fact superior to the proposed- simply because they don't have to deal with that 10% decrease in explosion velocity.

Please look at the simple maths I am providing. It doesn't matter how much of a damage bonus you give missiles, if you are not willing to look at the application of the damage. Cruise / torps / HML / HAM can already do very little in the PvP environment because these weapon systems apply so little damage, unless the target is hard tackled. However hard tackling a target is difficult when you are flying small gang / kiting / solo. So other than using 2/3 ships, how is a pilot going to apply any meaningful damage to targets?

For those of you that are not as versed in missile damage, there are two deciding factors that determine missile damage:

Explosion radius vs target radius
Explosion velocity vs target velocity

Both of these components are not equal. Explosion radius has a much more marginal effect on missile damage, than a comparable decrease in explosion velocity / target velocity. Because of the way missile damage is calculated and coded into EvE- giving a missile that already struggles to apply damage a HUGE 10% explosion velocity decrease, is going to turn any 'dps buff' into a joke when observed in the PvP area.

Because the facts of the matter are this: Most ships carry an MWD. And while they do increase signature, this is not nearly enough to offset the fact that the same increase seen in the ship speed when compared to missile explosion velocity- throws damage application out the window. As I have stated before: If you increase the target velocity and the target signature radius by the same margin, target speed and explosion velocity play a much much larger role in deciding applied DPS to target than the same increase in explosion radius / target radius.

So CCP please clarify this for me.

1. Are you planning on adding addition modules to the game that will allow a pod pilot to choose to decrease explosion radius / increase explosion velocity apart from rigs?

2. Are you currently happy with RLM missiles having superior damage application when compared to HAM's / HMLs against cruisers?

3. What are your thoughts on the difficulty faced by missile uses when attempting to apply full 'on paper' DPS to PvP ships with out using hard tackle? Please provide an answer that is relevant to solo / small gang or kiting play styles. (Not all of us have friends in rapiers, huginns, arazus that fly around with us on call.)

Thank you for your time, and I await your response.

However if they go that far, then wouldn't it be probable that TD's would start effecting all weapon systems? I hope they don't walk down that path- because if so every ship will have a TD on it, and things will become quite stupid.

and this is supposed to make cruise missiles valid on pvp?

You know what would make missiles even more awesome (in PvP and PvE): reduced target painter cycle time. I suggest decreasing its cycle time and activation cost by 50%. Currently it is a PITA to use target painters against multiple squishy targets.

So why bother putting the BCUs on the Drake if you aren't trying to compare actual damage? And if you're not trying to compare actual damage... why not? Is that not what actually matters? :)

-Liang