Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If you can't fit the weapons, they're not good.
The Rokh has like 70% of the PG that the new Apoc does. However it can fit a full rack of 8 of the largest railguns, plus a T2 large shield extender, plus a 100mn microwarpdrive, plus a medium cap booster. All without any fitting modules whatsoever.
You need at least one PG rig or RCU II JUST for the guns, and then you can't fit much of anything else.

I think I'll fit my geddon with those new cruise launchers and a TP or 2. Then I can NOS for the cap for the repper while I wonder why I'm staring at solid objects flying through space instead of coherant paths of visible spectrum light.

Seriously, though, while I share the pain of those who loved their old geddons, I think the new geddon will be rather an interesting ship to fly.

As for armor tanking either the new Apoc or the new Baddon... not really, no. I did some testing in Pyfa by simulating the cap need change with hardwirings, and the only way I could give up the standard non-implanted fit of 3 CCC rigs and 4 cap rechargers to be stable while shooting and repping was to trade out a low slot instead with a cap power relay (not an option before the change as the lasers used too much cap). And yes, I did try using an Eluctiation rig or 2 instead of CCC rigs, but the cap draw of both turrets and repper necessitated going back to the CCC rigs.

I've been spending time thinking about old/new baddon and old/new lasers vs the fit I had to run as standard (dual faction reps as T2 wouldn't fit due to PG issues) as rat incoming fire in too many missions was too severe to single rep (no, the tank with BS V and the old resists was not strong enough to be supported by a single rep in too many missions, and you can't fix that with armor rigs since your stuck with CCC rigs), and the upshot was that the final dual tank tweak is to dual rep stably your only shutting off 3 turrets instead of the previous 4 to cap manage, and that does not mean stability.

I suppose you might be able to swap out 1 CCC rig for an armor rig if you go 4 cap rechargers and a power relay, but that means losing even more tank on top of these resist nerfs... so, lets lay that out... either way you fit it 5 mods for tank, and praying that the reduced rep even with the rig will be enough with cap stability to kill off enough rats to reduce incoming fire to stop breaking the tank....

I do hope that despite my rambling in this, the point comes across as clearly as I attempted to make it, ie, this is not working. And as was already pointed out, the Apoc isn't going to be as favored as it used to be since it does still come out slightly the worse for wear on cap issues whereas the Abaddon is coming out marginally ahead on that at least.

This all, though, was to use my own personal experiences and knowledge to point out what should be given thought to for all these ships being hit with this nerf, yea, sure, you fix your blob fleets, but your screwing everything else these resist bonuses hulls are used for.

Well said, hopefully CCP Rise hasn't given up on this thread.

If one is in dire need of a hammer, then being handed a good old stone feels like a blessing ..

Still say the Elutri rigs should have their numbers doubled. Sure off-race may rear its ugly head but at least they'd have to blow their rig slots in the same fashion .. could be a boon for hybrid users as well. Alternative is to increase cap on hulls affected, but that just opens up for neuting abuse (old Apoc was a notoriously good neutring boat and capacitor now is equal).

In short: Cap problem should be 'solved' through modules, not the weapons/hulls. Lasers have a revision coming up in the years to come so might as well leave them and look elsewhere for more generalized solutions.

Megathron is getting a RoF bonus I believe so it will feel the strain of the guns .. blasters may draw less but generally start firing with MWD running to take advantage of what can be done on approach (falloff).

Competition is healthy, even among modules/rigs. CCC is a completely different beast, one that has coexisted with the semiconductor in perfect harmony so doubt there will be much overlap .. Elutri rigs only benefit you if you are actually firing your guns whereas the CCC presents a static increase of recharge rate.

Just to say YET AGAIN!

Being able to use your races weapons IS NOT A BONUS. The reduced cap use for lasers is rediculous as a 2nd bonus and is a big reason amarr ships aren't as viable as other races.

Hopefully with the bonus's removal, it will uncover what the bonus has been hiding all along even with these minor tweaks. When the changes hit SISI, which the lack of feedback on this thread indicates, we need to all try to run a mission or solo/small gang pvp in the new BS's and provide feedback, though with the napkin math that's been presented in this thread, it doesn't take a developer to see how ridiculous forcing Amarr to buffer tank missions and fire a weapon that isn't even cap stable without prop/tank running (even the "low-cap" pulse turrets).

People are asking for beams to have [even] less powergrid and use [slightly] less capacitor. The more sane ones aren't talking about buffing other things, they actually want something nerfed so that CCP can look at Crystals and Lasers again (here's looking at you scorch). Your "thread" seems to be aimed at turning the 425mm into 1400mm light, as you have change refire and alpha but not looked at cap, fit or the relationship of your changes to ammunition available.

Apples and oranges. You're comparing a cruiser to a BC. Yes, BCs have more fitting room.

The laser equivalent of the Drake is the Harbinger.

So, to get back on topic! Beam lasers need a larger PG fix, and we need to do more about the cap usage of our disco balls! I still vote for a cap recharger buff, never gets used in PvP as nuets out power it so CCP will still see the love for their cap boosters, but will allow PvE runners more latitude... and, ok, to be realistic, some solo/very small gang pvp might take advantage of it, but that certainly wouldn't be a game breaking event!