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[Proposal] Quit whining about high-sec!!!

Author
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-29 23:40:48 UTC
Quit whining about high-sec.

Srsly.

EVERYONE can take partake of the "advantages" of high-sec. If you choose not to then get over it.

This is a game.

High-sec is a lifestyle
Null-sec is a lifestyle.
They are both choices.

Every civilization creates relatively safe havens for its citizens to do business. Why SHOULD there be that much risk for people who chose more peaceful pursuits in what SHOULD be a much safer environment?

Just because you choose to throw away your ships like an addict smokes crack does NOT make Ms Buylow Sellhigh a bad person for having a lot more money than you have just because she made the CHOICE to not live a null-sec lifestyle and saved her ISK.

You are just looking for ways to make pirating easy because you are too lazy to take the time to make money the boring, peaceful way like the people you want to make it easier to steal from do. If you weren't you would have a toon in high-sec taking advantage of it and we wouldn't have a problem here.

Whoever heard of concentrating wealth in centers of civilization?...Pretty much everyone. Gee, there's more money in high-sec than null-sec. Whoda thunkit?

EVE isn't a total sandbox and there are protected areas of civilization there just like in real life.

High-sec doesn't need more pvp for the sake of pvp and it doesn't need pvp to create more risk for people who are trying to create money in the most risk-free way they can...can you imagine ANYONE wanting to make money in the most risk-free way they can? Gosh.

High-sec does not need any more risk. Put a toon in high-sec and enjoy those advantages you keep crying about. It's not like any of you have been cut off. You CHOSE your lifestyle.

Piracy SHOULDN'T be that easy and the further into controlled space you get, the more difficult it should be.

What EVE needs is fewer players getting their feelings hurt because they spent all their money on crack and want the police to look the other way so they can mug someone for their wallet and more people willing to work for and save their money.

Not ONE of you has been cut off from the high-sec resources you whine about except by YOUR choice.

Get a fresh diaper and go get a real job or shut up...:P

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#2 - 2011-10-30 00:11:01 UTC
Where to start with a guy who is scared to post on his main account..

Quote:
Every civilization creates relatively safe havens for its citizens to do business. Why SHOULD there be that much risk for people who chose more peaceful pursuits in what SHOULD be a much safer environment?

Just because you choose to throw away your ships like an addict smokes crack does NOT make Ms Buylow Sellhigh a bad person for having a lot more money than you have just because she made the CHOICE to not live a null-sec lifestyle and saved her ISK.


ROFL. Refer to my post in the TEST thread please. I cannot be bothered to repeat myself.

Who has more isk? :lol: The vast majority of the wealthiest players on eve reside in Null-sec. How do you figure high-sec carebears have more isk?

Quote:
You are just looking for ways to make pirating easy because you are too lazy to take the time to make money the boring, peaceful way like the people you want to make it easier to steal from do. If you weren't you would have a toon in high-sec taking advantage of it and we wouldn't have a problem here.

Whoever heard of concentrating wealth in centers of civilization?...Pretty much everyone. Gee, there's more money in high-sec than null-sec. Whoda thunkit?

Pirating easy? Piracy is fun, but definitely not benefitial enough for my taste sunshine. Unlss you can find me people to gank and ransom that will pay me 10b overall. Unfortunately for me my tastes involve cute little ships such as: Command ships, Black ops ships, Supercarriers, etc. So no. Pirating isnt profitable enough for me. I do it from time to time cause its fun.

Okay, I personally own 75b which resides in high sec. Why? Cause I collect stuff. What does my isk do? Where is the majority of my isk for everyday playing spent? You probably guessed wrong so I will tell you in Nullsec. Who would have thought that huh? Ship supplying and mod supplying in our nullsec? Not possible! Understand the concept that the vast majority of the isk in the economy comes from mission spammers, who run missions allllll day long and make maybe 100m for 16 hours of mission running. Guess what I can make by running two sites? You guessed it. 100m. A site that takes a total of 25 minutes.



Quote:
EVE isn't a total sandbox and there are protected areas of civilization there just like in real life.

Really? Where? Before you say america, please look at the crime rate and murder rate in the US. The US gets attacked from inside. So, **** your idea of a utopia.

Quote:
High-sec doesn't need more pvp for the sake of pvp and it doesn't need pvp to create more risk for people who are trying to create money in the most risk-free way they can...can you imagine ANYONE wanting to make money in the most risk-free way they can? Gosh.

High-sec does not need any more risk. Put a toon in high-sec and enjoy those advantages you keep crying about. It's not like any of you have been cut off. You CHOSE your lifestyle.

cut mission rewards to 1/5 of what they are and remove anothing above the 1st stage sansha incursion systems while cutting the rewards for that down to 1/8th of what they are. Remove 80% of astroid belts and remove Ice belts from high sec. Restrict POS's to one per corporation in high sec. Then you can have your perfect utopia. With a utopia comes very limited restrictions.
With a perfect world being ran by drone military to keep horrible things from happening comes massive reprocussions in real life. Look at China.


Quote:
Piracy SHOULDN'T be that easy and the further into controlled space you get, the more difficult it should be.

What EVE needs is fewer players getting their feelings hurt because they spent all their money on crack and want the police to look the other way so they can mug someone for their wallet and more people willing to work for and save their money.

Not ONE of you has been cut off from the high-sec resources you whine about except by YOUR choice.

Get a fresh diaper and go get a real job or shut up...:P


It's not. You have to properly fit your ship for what you are doing.

Why you mad bro?

Blah blah blah.

I work on helicopters for the US Government. I train people to work on them while working on them. I've saved and taken lives. What have you done besides helping your mother from having overpressurized milk dispensers?
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-10-30 00:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
lord xavier wrote:
...mental vomit...


I'd say sick burn but I think you are silly.

Posting on an alt in EVE?

Sounds like good business to me.

No one cares if you can't be bothered repeat yourself...you aren't that important, sunshine.

So what if null-sec DOES have more isk? I didn't guess anything, I only went from what a lot of folks whine about.

If null-sec has more money that supports the idea of leaving high-sec alone.

Your 75b wow gee that's great. Really. Not relevant but cool. Okay not really, sunshine.

In america and other countries people are incarcerated, fined and executed for doing what eve players do all the time...it's not about utopia it's about not allowing people to run amok wherever they feel like it whenever they feel like it, sunshine

lord xavier wrote:
cut mission rewards to 1/5 of what they are and remove anothing above the 1st stage sansha incursion systems while cutting the rewards for that down to 1/8th of what they are. Remove 80% of astroid belts and remove Ice belts from high sec. Restrict POS's to one per corporation in high sec. Then you can have your perfect utopia. With a utopia comes very limited restrictions.
With a perfect world being ran by drone military to keep horrible things from happening comes massive reprocussions in real life. Look at China.


So you don't want to run the missions or make use of high-sec resources, i get that, sunshine.

It's sad that you equate not allowing people too run amok wherever and whenever they want as utopian...look at china.

I am happy for you that you work on helicopters for the government . While I obviously can't deny it, in my experience as a veteran most folks talk little about action they have seen, much less try to impress a stranger with it especially when it is irrelevant to a conversation. In my experience that usually happens because they are trying to bolster their confidence in themselves and self-importance and more often than not it isn't even true.

True or not, it is irrelevant and in any case I apologize for not being impressed, sunshine,

Never said I was mad, sunshine, you did when you spent most of the post talking about yourself instead of what i posted.

Thanks for sharing though.

Just saying leave high-sec alone.

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

lord xavier
Rubbed Out
#4 - 2011-10-30 01:11:59 UTC
I bottle fed you a troll and yet this is all that is provided for a troll? Bah. I'll have to go feed the goons to make up for this waste of time.
Asimar Deris
New Eden Corporation 98107963
#5 - 2011-10-30 01:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Asimar Deris
OP: Obvious troll is obvious.

I would endorse some changes though, not a drastic overhaul.

EvE is fundamentally a PvP oriented game. Yes, its tough, its nasty, its down right cruel at times. But stick at it, persevere, and you'll feel a sense of achievement.

Because of this orientation. There 'should' be an incentive to go into the lawless depths of space on some lucrative venture, with all the risk that comes with it. However, with current mechanics there are no incentives to do so.

Higher level missions pay too much. (I was talking about this with a corp mate, and the idea of a different branch of frig/cruiser/battleship missions with higher payouts in low/null could be an idea.)

Incursions pay way too much too. I would also suggest further changes to incursions, but that would be for another thread.

Stations, and undocking radius (to be honest, this needs addressed across board, not just your utopian hisec)
Agression mechanics (Again, across board)

Yup, your perfect world is fine. I can only find a few things I'd tweak. Its not as if I would turn the entirety of EvE into 0.0 space... Though I think that'd be pretty damn fun for a while.

Quote:
Lord Xavier wrote

I work on helicopters for the US Government. I train people to work on them while working on them. I've saved and taken lives. What have you done besides helping your mother from having overpressurized milk dispensers?


Just lol.. that's certainly bio worthy material!
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-10-30 01:58:14 UTC
lord xavier wrote:
I bottle fed you a troll and yet this is all that is provided for a troll? Bah. I'll have to go feed the goons to make up for this waste of time.



Yes, yes we noticed you. Run along now.

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-30 04:23:44 UTC
Totally disagree with this proposal.

Make hi sec your boring version of Utopia and you watch the subscriptions plummet. Why make isk just for the sake of it? This is not bankers and accountants in space you know?

Shaidar Hussan
HelloKittyFanclub
#8 - 2011-10-30 04:36:45 UTC
Asimar Deris wrote:

Incursions pay way too much too. I would also suggest further changes to incursions, but that would be for another thread.

I tries making one already :P No one replied, then again no one trolled me. I think on these forums that's the equivalent of a resounding applause.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=19571

Asimar Deris wrote:

Stations, and undocking radius (to be honest, this needs addressed across board, not just your utopian hisec)
Agression mechanics (Again, across board)

Yup, your perfect world is fine. I can only find a few things I'd tweak. Its not as if I would turn the entirety of EvE into 0.0 space... Though I think that'd be pretty damn fun for a while.

Aye, high sec doesn't need to be made more dangerous, just less profitable. At the moment I make around about the same amount of ISK doing PvE in lowsec as I did in highsec, that seems pretty dumb to me.

Incursion runners also don't have to put up with having scanned down and run a 30 minute site, only to find a few meta items at the end of it. Hell, they don't even need to scan >< Just warp to site, blitz, and warp to the next.

Quote:
Lord Xavier wrote

I work on helicopters for the US Government. I train people to work on them while working on them. I've saved and taken lives. What have you done besides helping your mother from having overpressurized milk dispensers?

You sir win a cookie.
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-10-30 16:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
So yeah,

Some people want to be peaceful industrialists, (or not so peaceful, hello bdaddy warbucks). Governments and militaries LIKE this. Wars cost money that could be used to buy more toys. Better to allow folks to do business in relative peace. They pay more taxes and protest less.

Plenty of countries used to pay good prize money for ships and equipment back in the day, btw.

There's a lot of "just make it a little less profitable" going around, which means it's not really a serious problem is it?

The "make it a LOT less profitable" is just plain silly. There's a reason most companies try not to have their main operations centers in war zones and various illicit enterprises launder their money through companies with operations in safer places.

Why do people keep bringing up economics when they have access to the same resources? There's LOTS of money in EVE.

What you are asking for is ludicrous:

However you seek to accomplish it getting everyone to move out of manhattan to bed-stuy would eventually result in bed-stuy being the next manhattan...complete with npc military and police while the peaceful industrialists make money

You just don't like peaceful industrialists having npc protection and you want to make it easier to mug them.

Shaidar Hussan wrote:


Quote:
Lord Xavier wrote

I work on helicopters for the US Government. I train people to work on them while working on them. I've saved and taken lives. What have you done besides helping your mother from having overpressurized milk dispensers?

You sir win a cookie.


Yeah, hooray for the "px ranger"...

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-10-30 18:00:50 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:

Make hi sec your boring version of Utopia and you watch the subscriptions plummet. Why make isk just for the sake of it?


So they can RMT it, obviously!
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-10-30 18:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:

Make hi sec your boring version of Utopia and you watch the subscriptions plummet. Why make isk just for the sake of it?


So they can RMT it, obviously!


Because we can't buy PLEX with real money and sell it for in game cash, amirite?...Big smile

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-10-30 19:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
Smiling Menace wrote:
Totally disagree with this proposal.

Make hi sec your boring version of Utopia and you watch the subscriptions plummet. Why make isk just for the sake of it? This is not bankers and accountants in space you know?



Oh look yet another perfect world/utopia parrot...BRAAAWK!!!

Like the real world we live in is such a perfect world...utopia my ass...Blink

Sovereign nations don't allow people to just run amok amongst them. It's bad for their powerbase. Why do you keep asking for it? There is a reason life is safer in the US and in Europe rather than most parts of Africa.

EVE culture is based on multi-planetary nations with regular militaries and police forces. In these sorts of cultures there WILL be very safe places and there WILL be banks and accountants and industrialists and business people in space. Some of your fellow players are doing it right now...check your skills list, the business skills are there, really. True story.

Who says everyone sits on their money, but if they want to, who are you to tell them otherwise? Mind your own damn business. You like spending ships like crack? That's YOUR problem...go to a clinic or a null-secanon meeting and get some help...Big smile

You volunteered to go live in 0.0. Quit crying...P

What you really want is to make all of space like the back alleys of a William Gibson novel. (Except that those back alleys are often VERY tightly controlled by VERY nasty people. You can't always run amok in there either.)

Humans won't put up with that crap if they don't have to so it's silly to expect EVE culture to be different than that, especially given their size, and even more silly to expect you should be able to do the equivalent of dogfighting over the DC/MD/VA area of the US with live ammo just because you feel like it or because people are MAKING money instead of spending it on ships like addicts spend it on crack.

You already have null-sec to do exactly what you want...why be so greedy?

If the grass really is greener in high-sec then why don't you operate in high-sec?

"Because we can't easily be ganker pirates in high-sec...BRAAAWK!!!"

That's the point of high-sec...hello, mcfly...

Are subscriptions plummeting now? Not last I checked, but why blame high-sec if they were? According to many folks, pvp players are the driving force in EVE and have the most influence on the subscription base. If so then the null-seccers can clearly communicate to those new players where to go for a good fight in 0.0, yes? If there is not that much control over the subscriber base, perhaps it's because not everyone wants to play in the wild, wild, west of null-sec...shocking to even consider, i know this my null-sec friends but perhaps it is so.

If the hardcore pvp 0.0 players really are the core of this game and high-sec is as irrelevant and non-influential as so many of them say...then why keep trying to change it? Leave it alone and go play in 0.0. Plenty of space for everyone.

Otherwise this smacks of naughty, selfish children trying to steal another child's candybar just because that child saved money to buy that candy bar rather than steal it.

Wait a sec...That IS what is happening!!!

Making high-sec like null-sec just gives you more null-sec...and you clearly aren't satisfied with null-sec so why are you trying to create more of it?

Go ahead and get yourself a wet navy and sail up to any major sovereign nation in the world and open fire and see what happens to you. What you REALLY seem to want is to say "hey there russia/uk/us, um yeah, we think you guys have too much money and resources so we, um, want to assault your citizens, and um, destroy some of their stuff, and um, steal some of their stuff...is that okay?" and get "yeah sure, no problem" as an answer.

If I smoked I would definitely want some of what a bunch of 0.0 seem to be smoking. It's apparently outrageously good $#!t!...Cool

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-10-30 20:00:35 UTC
Thredd Necro wrote:
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:

Make hi sec your boring version of Utopia and you watch the subscriptions plummet. Why make isk just for the sake of it?


So they can RMT it, obviously!


Because we can't buy PLEX with real money and sell it for in game cash, amirite?...Big smile


look at how silly you are
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-10-30 20:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Thredd Necro wrote:
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:

Make hi sec your boring version of Utopia and you watch the subscriptions plummet. Why make isk just for the sake of it?


So they can RMT it, obviously!


Because we can't buy PLEX with real money and sell it for in game cash, amirite?...Big smile


look at how silly you are


Here's a cookie!

Thx for the bump!

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-31 15:38:30 UTC
I don't want to give myself a cookie...P

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#16 - 2011-11-01 11:56:03 UTC
I was a carebear for two years before moving to Null and I can honestly say that the ganks, griefer wardecs and scams I either saw or was victim of were 95% perpetrated by HiSec residents upon their fellow HiSec residents.

The honest truth is at the time I welcomed these distractions from the monotony of the ISK grind, without them HiSec would have been so boring after the first few months I'd have left the game. Now that I live in Null the only time I visit HiSec is when I jump into my +5 clone because I'm off line for a few days.

Apart from logistics considerations HiSec is of no interest to most of us in Null, we left that stagnant pond behind a long time ago and are better for it. You HiSec residents love to blame Null for your woes but the truth is your doing it to yourselves most of the time and we are just a convenient way of avoiding admitting it.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-11-01 17:42:13 UTC
Samillian wrote:
I was a carebear for two years before moving to Null and I can honestly say that the ganks, griefer wardecs and scams I either saw or was victim of were 95% perpetrated by HiSec residents upon their fellow HiSec residents.

The honest truth is at the time I welcomed these distractions from the monotony of the ISK grind, without them HiSec would have been so boring after the first few months I'd have left the game. Now that I live in Null the only time I visit HiSec is when I jump into my +5 clone because I'm off line for a few days.

Apart from logistics considerations HiSec is of no interest to most of us in Null, we left that stagnant pond behind a long time ago and are better for it. You HiSec residents love to blame Null for your woes but the truth is your doing it to yourselves most of the time and we are just a convenient way of avoiding admitting it.


-1 for obviously not reading my post. Not once did I blame null for my woes.

-1 for being yet another kneejerk "high-sec means nothing to null-sec/it's a stagnant pond/it's all high-secs fault anyway" parrot. If that were all true then null-seccers wouldn't complain about what they see as a too high risk/reward ratio in high-sec and based on that they would not keep trying to make activities more dangerous and less profitable in high-sec. They would just shut up and go away.

Good try though, here's a cookie...Big smile

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#18 - 2011-11-01 20:56:55 UTC
Highsec needs less reward for the low risk it carries. Other than that, leave it be.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-11-01 23:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Highsec needs less reward for the low risk it carries. Other than that, leave it be.


High-sec is all about as much low-risk high reward as is possible and it is designed that way and no amount of constant denial and repeating of "high-sec should be have a worse risk/reward ratio and be less profitable" will make that any less true.

There are reasons why Wall Street USA is Wall Street and one of them is definitely WHERE Wall Street is.

It's in high-sec and it is run by carebears who usually try for the greatest reward with the least risk and avoid getting into wars unless they can make a profit.

"high-sec should be have a worse risk/reward ratio and be less profitable"? No, not so much.

People keep talking about higher payoffs for missions in low/null-sec...who is going to pay for that?

I know the deep pockets of high-sec companies can pay for theirs and I am NOT saying payoffs should NOT be increased for missions. What I AM asking is, "What is the logical basis for asking someone to pay you more money which decreases THEIR profit margins without a coherent idea of what extra value you bring to justify the increase in pay?"

Again, all this stuff automagically renews and you can do missions forever. Choosing to live above your means is NOT a good reason to pay you more.


No cookie for you...P

Okay you can have a cookie...Big smile

Edited for cookie.

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-11-01 23:35:52 UTC
Thredd Necro wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Highsec needs less reward for the low risk it carries. Other than that, leave it be.


High-sec is all about as much low-risk high reward as is possible and it is designed that way and no amount of constant denial and repeating of "high-sec should be have a worse risk/reward ratio and be less profitable" will make that any less true.

There are reasons why Wall Street USA is Wall Street and one of them is definitely WHERE Wall Street is.

It's in high-sec and it is run by carebears who usually try for the greatest reward with the least risk and avoid getting into wars unless they can make a profit.

"high-sec should be have a worse risk/reward ratio and be less profitable"? No, not so much.

People keep talking about higher payoffs for missions in low/null-sec...who is going to pay for that?

I know the deep pockets of high-sec companies can pay for theirs and I am NOT saying payoffs should NOT be increased for missions. What I AM asking is, "What is the logical basis for asking someone to pay you more money which decreases THEIR profit margins without a coherent idea of what extra value you bring to justify the increase in pay?"

Again, all this stuff automagically renews and you can do missions forever. Choosing to live above your means is NOT a good reason to pay you more.


No cookie for you...P

Okay you can have a cookie...Big smile

Edited for cookie.


Taking some of this with me and dropping this second thread as well.

Go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22653

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

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