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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1941 - 2013-04-17 21:43:51 UTC
Rysis Vyvorant wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Drew Kaps wrote:
So this Domi nerf.. is it also going to cripple the Navy Domi?

What nerf? It could still use some love but there was hardly a nerf.


Considering drones never had an issue hitting in the first place what exactly do you call the change? Below 40km a Geddon is a better ship and for sniping turret boats are just better because they can move.

This is a nerf until either:

drone range bonus is included
drone damge bonus increased
number of drones launched is increased

The Armageddon is better ATM, yes changes have been being asked for that since the first post of the thread.

Control range is one of the changes needed to set the two apart.
Damage is fine as is.
Lol, you will never see more than 5 drones from a sub cap. Saving the Gardian-Vexor of course.

I do not call it a nerf because it is not, but it still could use more work.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Drew Kaps
Pecuniam Enterprises
#1942 - 2013-04-17 21:46:45 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Drew Kaps wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Drew Kaps wrote:
So this Domi nerf.. is it also going to cripple the Navy Domi?

What nerf? It could still use some love but there was hardly a nerf.


Forgive me, sir, you are correct. So this -25% damage reduction buff, will it also be applied to the Navy Domi?

The damage application was increased and you now have 2 free mid slots. You can still do over 1k DPS at close range. You can also now fit neutron blasters and a tank.
Losing the 25% damage bonus was well composited.
No idea about the navy Dominix.


I see. Thanks! Guess I just need to ride out the changes and hope nothing gets changed with the Navy Domi.
Hoinus
Duty Free Exchange
#1943 - 2013-04-17 22:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoinus
What if the Hyperion gets the new changes but make the rep bonus apply to all reps be it local or remote.

The Megathron do the change but since it has low EHP or speed if you stack plates, give it back its 5 big drones.

The Domimix changes are not good at all. Lose DPS for something useless. Yes you can gain some mids if you drop the maybe no longer needed as much omnidirectional trackers. But for what unless there is something to gain of = value.

If that really is the direction you want to take the Domi in, give it a bonus drone control range as well so it can fit 6 guns to make up for the loss of bonused turret dps.
Jasmine Shepard
Relentless Destruction
Immediate Destruction
#1944 - 2013-04-17 22:05:32 UTC
These new changes look totally kickass and I can't wait to try out these new battleships!

Looks like the hyperion gets more tank as well as more dps from the increased drone bay/bandwidth, love that you can field a full set of heavies as well as some extra lights.

I actually kind of like the mega changes as most fits that i used you had to break an arm and a leg to fit a heavy neut on it. The extra low will make it better in fleets i think.

The domi doesn't seem like it's changed all that much other than a buff to drones and it'll be interesting to see overall how the new sentry domi works.

Overall great changes IMO! Keep up the goodwork kil2... errr I mean ccp Rise.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1945 - 2013-04-17 22:29:14 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The Armageddon is better ATM

No, it isn't. The dominix was the only T1 drone BS, and he now have a brother. Dominix is not alone anymore in its class. It will be hard for the dominix lovers to see it share some place with a little brother.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1946 - 2013-04-17 22:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The Armageddon is better ATM

No, it isn't. The dominix was the only T1 drone BS, and he now have a brother. Dominix is not alone anymore in its class. It will be hard for the dominix lovers to see it share some place with a little brother.

The fact that there are 2 ships occupying the same role makes this claim possible rather than invalidating it. Realistically the 2nd bonus on the Domi is more situational and harder to take advantage of than the geddon's bonus. Considering the similarity between them now it's a fair comparison.
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#1947 - 2013-04-17 23:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: smoking gun81
Maximus Andendare wrote:

You really ought to play this game before commenting on it.

First, carriers have 15 drones with the DCUs. The Domi would have 10 total. Carriers can use fighters. And I'm pretty sure the main reason to fly a carrier anyway is for triage. By your terrible logic, no ships could have bonuses any other has.

And the argument for the removal of the local repair bonus is twofold: local armor tanking is cap intensive and performs poorly. There isn't an ASB module that armor tanked ships can fit that makes them cap-independent for tank.


local armor tanking works as well as the pilot that pilots the ship if you can not get it working well go play another game.
Two Large armor reps use a combination of 800 Gj coinsidently the same amount that an 800 cap charge gives and the LAR’s cycle longer than the cap injector ( 15 sec vs 10 sec ) so you always got cap bring armor warfare links into this and you get better cycle time and less cap usage.
Also the LAAR uses the same cap and when loaded with nanite paste gets a bonus to the repair output a thing that the cap isolated ASB do not.

Maximus Andendare wrote:
just as a proper T2 logi ship will have both range and repair amount over the Domi with a proposed logi range bonus.


This is just pure crap NO T2 logi ship gets an RR module amount bonus only the niddy gets a 5% to Shied and armor RR amount it is all range bonus hence encroaching on logistic ships bonus’s and i’m such a failure ???
The T1's get one to make them more viable.


Maximus Andendare wrote:
But why you're talking about triage and a Niddy (being repped?) in 2.4 seconds or...f**k it, I can't make sense of nonsense.


Are you asking for a local tanking bonus of 7.5% and 7.5% incomming repair effectivness to be applied to a niddy no you want it applied to a hyp I was showing you how long it would take to rep a ship ( again the hyp ) with a ship that had a projected RR bonus ( example the triage niddyy try and keep up ) with links and all.

Maximus Andendare wrote:
Ah cool links! Woo! Instead of watching all those YouTube videos and wishing you were as good as those pilots, you should actually play the game, learn about what you're talking about, then you can post here without sounding like an idiot.


Thanks for the props on my previos exploits in eve although comming from someone that belives T2 logi ships have an amount increase in RR modules makes the props oohh so worthless.

P.S. I made a special comment for you on this video can you read the description TwistedTwistedTwisted
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#1948 - 2013-04-18 00:50:40 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The Armageddon is better ATM

No, it isn't. The dominix was the only T1 drone BS, and he now have a brother. Dominix is not alone anymore in its class. It will be hard for the dominix lovers to see it share some place with a little brother.

Not alone anymore... true. And few have a problem with this.
The problem is that the Armageddon overshadows the Dominix at close range (better tank, tactically more flexible, neut bonus, etc). And other ships overshadow the Dominix in the role it's being "encouraged" into (sentry sniping).
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1949 - 2013-04-18 01:01:11 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem is that the Armageddon overshadows the Dominix at close range (better tank, tactically more flexible, neut bonus, etc). And other ships overshadow the Dominix in the role it's being "encouraged" into (sentry sniping).

In fact, the tank difference is meaningless, and the dominix is the most flexible of the two, because of the mid slots. Gun dps is rather balanced : the dominix have one more turret hardpoint, which mean better use of weapon damage module, but the geddon have more weapon slots wich offset this. As for the sentry thing, that was already something the dominix do a lot, and while sentries have inherent drawback, they don't overlap with turrets more than missiles for example.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#1950 - 2013-04-18 02:01:34 UTC
good nerfs, keep going this is just what we needed
Drew Kaps
Pecuniam Enterprises
#1951 - 2013-04-18 02:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Drew Kaps
Jasmine Shepard wrote:


The domi doesn't seem like it's changed all that much other than a buff to drones and it'll be interesting to see overall how the new sentry domi works.




CCP Rise wrote:


+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)



Personally, I'm already training to fly a 'geddon.
Tom Guhl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1952 - 2013-04-18 05:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Guhl
Rysis Vyvorant wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

What nerf? It could still use some love but there was hardly a nerf.

Considering drones never had an issue hitting in the first place what exactly do you call the change? Below 40km a Geddon is a better ship and for sniping turret boats are just better because they can move.

This is a nerf until either:
drone range bonus is included
drone damge bonus increased
number of drones launched is increased

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I personally feel that adding a drone MWD bonus would make the new Domi a really interesting choice for the drone aficionado. Heavy drones that get there fast enough to matter and with enough tracking to hit targets smaller than a battlecruiser: yes please!

Yeah, I guess Drone Navi Comps exist, maybe I'll try that. But they aren't as effective on heavies because of the flat thrust bonus instead of percentage-based.

For now, it looks like it will get a big buff to sentry drones and a lot less to heavies (although the tracking still helps them).

P.S. don't bother asking for drone damage buff beyond the 10% per level it already gets, I mean really, what?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1953 - 2013-04-18 06:09:35 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem is that the Armageddon overshadows the Dominix at close range (better tank, tactically more flexible, neut bonus, etc). And other ships overshadow the Dominix in the role it's being "encouraged" into (sentry sniping).

In fact, the tank difference is meaningless, and the dominix is the most flexible of the two, because of the mid slots. Gun dps is rather balanced : the dominix have one more turret hardpoint, which mean better use of weapon damage module, but the geddon have more weapon slots wich offset this. As for the sentry thing, that was already something the dominix do a lot, and while sentries have inherent drawback, they don't overlap with turrets more than missiles for example.

Without the damage bonus aren't you better off with DDA's? If so the advantage there loses a good portion of its practicality. As for the rest, are dominix fleet doctrines really something likely to become prolific in the face of carriers for drone alternatives or turreted ships which don't leave their dps behind when they move? That is the only real full use of the bonus.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1954 - 2013-04-18 06:49:58 UTC
Drew Kaps wrote:
Jasmine Shepard wrote:


The domi doesn't seem like it's changed all that much other than a buff to drones and it'll be interesting to see overall how the new sentry domi works.




CCP Rise wrote:


+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)



Personally, I'm already training to fly a 'geddon.


Why? You've never done any PVP, and for PVE Domi is certainly the superior choice.

.

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1955 - 2013-04-18 07:59:50 UTC
Roime wrote:
Drew Kaps wrote:
Jasmine Shepard wrote:


The domi doesn't seem like it's changed all that much other than a buff to drones and it'll be interesting to see overall how the new sentry domi works.




CCP Rise wrote:


+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)



Personally, I'm already training to fly a 'geddon.


Why? You've never done any PVP, and for PVE Domi is certainly the superior choice.



Well unless there are changes to drones then I'll be swapping from domi to geddon too, and I do pvp. The sentry bonus as things stand right now is nowhere near as useful as the neut range bonus in the majority of situations I enjoy fighting in.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1956 - 2013-04-18 08:03:20 UTC
Gardes that track like dual TE Blastos with antimatter? I'll certainly find uses for that.

.

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1957 - 2013-04-18 08:16:37 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
Well unless there are changes to drones then I'll be swapping from domi to geddon too, and I do pvp. The sentry bonus as things stand right now is nowhere near as useful as the neut range bonus in the majority of situations I enjoy fighting in.

The ship being bad or useless and you having no use for it are two completely different and mostly unrelated things. If your primary use of the dominix is as a neutralizing platform, indeed the armageddon will be better ; otherwise, I'm not sure.
Jizzmaster Mckenzie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1958 - 2013-04-18 11:25:13 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

The damage application was increased and you now have 2 free mid slots. You can still do over 1k DPS at close range. You can also now fit neutron blasters and a tank.
Losing the 25% damage bonus was well composited.
No idea about the navy Dominix.


Two free mid slots? Pray tell me how?

Domi has 5 mid slots.
So I have three slots for MWD + tackle. At least one slot for a cap injector. That is 4 (four).

I can use the remaining mid to fit an ECCM, a second cap injector, or a second web.
Sometimes I even fit or a drone navigation computer (for specific purposes), but I know it is not a popular option.

There are few, if any, reasonable Domi fits that would sacrifice two mid slots for better drone tracking.
Now if you use your Domi for missions, sure, the new one looks good. More EHP, better cap stability because of them midlslots, and super-bonused sentries. Thing is, it does not matter how good (or bad) it is for missions. It is a ship with a mostly-useless secondary bonus.

Other races do much better in that regard. And given the current rather pitiful state of Gallente (even *after* hybrid buff), I think CCP can do better than what they propose. Especially since T1 cruiser and frig changes have been by and large awesome (thanks, Rise and Fozzie!).
Jizzmaster Mckenzie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1959 - 2013-04-18 11:38:08 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Nikuno wrote:
Well unless there are changes to drones then I'll be swapping from domi to geddon too, and I do pvp. The sentry bonus as things stand right now is nowhere near as useful as the neut range bonus in the majority of situations I enjoy fighting in.

The ship being bad or useless and you having no use for it are two completely different and mostly unrelated things. If your primary use of the dominix is as a neutralizing platform, indeed the armageddon will be better ; otherwise, I'm not sure.


No, he's right - the new Domi is mostly useful only for missions.

Turret (and now cruise) ships will be better snipers, because they can move. The only advantages Domi has is choice of damage and infinite ammo, and neither is all that important for most PvP situations.

Sure, you can conjure some other scenarios where it will be "useful". Problem is, other races' ships are just generally more useful, and better than the Domi in all possible ways.
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#1960 - 2013-04-18 11:45:39 UTC
Rysis Vyvorant wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Drew Kaps wrote:
So this Domi nerf.. is it also going to cripple the Navy Domi?

What nerf? It could still use some love but there was hardly a nerf.


Considering drones never had an issue hitting in the first place

Not sure if my drones are just always potato counters or if this statement is genuinely deserving of a healthy dose of RUFKNSRS

Save the drones!