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Am I too stupid to play EVE?

Author
Rocketfeller
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-04-17 16:41:23 UTC
I'm really pleased with the responses I've gotten. The outpouring of advice and support has been surprising, to say the least. I do have a couple more stupid questions.

The first rule of EVE is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". That's pretty self-explanatory. And there are ships in the game that cost tens of billions of ISK. The pilots of these ships have been around a while. So can they really afford to lose what they are flying?

I ask because I don't understand where that amount of ISK comes from. Sure, I get that many experienced players have learned how to generate significant amounts of ISK to support their gameplay (and still have enough left to casually toss 50 million at a noob they've never met). But with higher levels of income there come higher levels of expenses. Even if you are very good at mining, or missioning, or trading, or manufacturing, it seems like there would still be non-trivial time and effort required to grind that 50 million, and if you don't really need it for your game play, why would you bother with the grind?

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#122 - 2013-04-17 17:00:55 UTC
Rocketfeller wrote:

I ask because I don't understand where that amount of ISK comes from.


The most common source is poor guilible suckers lol.

The truly rich EVE players got rich the same way real rich got rich: lying cheating, conniving, scamming, manipulating others being more brilliant than the competition , figuring out how to provide a serve others were willing to pay for and providing that service better than anyone else would, finding a way to profit from something WHILE helping others, and various combinations of the all these and more.

In EVE as in real life, NO ONE ever got rich working a day job (ie ratting, mining, exploring , normal trading etc etc).

I'm one of those workaday types in game and out, I make my isk ratting (sometimes incursioning) and exploring. I'll never be space rich because I'd rather have fun than make money (and big money making activities in EVE aren't my idea of fun).

Quote:

Sure, I get that many experienced players have learned how to generate significant amounts of ISK to support their gameplay (and still have enough left to casually toss 50 million at a noob they've never met). But with higher levels of income there come higher levels of expenses. Even if you are very good at mining, or missioning, or trading, or manufacturing, it seems like there would still be non-trivial time and effort required to grind that 50 million, and if you don't really need it for your game play, why would you bother with the grind?



50 mil is literally nothing at all in EVE. A Tech1 battleship can make 15-25 mil isk every 20 minutes doing null sec anomalies or high sec incursions.

I have my gameplay set up to where I can PVE for 45 mins to 1 hour per day and pay for all my accounts via plex in 10 or 12 days. Hell, sometimes on the weekends (when my wife is at work and my kids are gone off to get into whatever trouble they can find) I can make enough exploring or doing incursions to pay for all 4 accounts with plex.

Even doing the workaday grind I do, making isk is so ridiculously easy it's almost unbalanced lol.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#123 - 2013-04-17 17:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Rocketfeller wrote:
I'm really pleased with the responses I've gotten. The outpouring of advice and support has been surprising, to say the least. I do have a couple more stupid questions.

The first rule of EVE is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". That's pretty self-explanatory. And there are ships in the game that cost tens of billions of ISK. The pilots of these ships have been around a while. So can they really afford to lose what they are flying?

I ask because I don't understand where that amount of ISK comes from. Sure, I get that many experienced players have learned how to generate significant amounts of ISK to support their gameplay (and still have enough left to casually toss 50 million at a noob they've never met). But with higher levels of income there come higher levels of expenses. Even if you are very good at mining, or missioning, or trading, or manufacturing, it seems like there would still be non-trivial time and effort required to grind that 50 million, and if you don't really need it for your game play, why would you bother with the grind?



Supercapitals are often funded with alliance support. There are certain types of moongoo (materials mined from moons) that are huge sources of wealth.

The most valuable is Technetium: 55k/unit, 100 units/hr. = 1b / week. The largest alliances have over a hundred Tech moons, and can afford to "insure" their pilot's supercap ships.

A single player generally has a much more difficult time covering the loss of a supercap, but there are plenty of very rich EvE players. Bigtime Industrialists and Traders earn enough to cover supercap expenses.

Your average-joe player running missions, mining, etc, will take a LONG time to accrue that much in assets.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#124 - 2013-04-17 17:21:25 UTC
Rocketfeller wrote:
I ask because I don't understand where that amount of ISK comes from.

When I was living in w-space, we were earning 750m-1.1b each for a 4 hour evening.

I've heard that incursions can also be lucrative.

I'm also an industrialist, so if I need ISK I just buy materials, build something, and sell it. The majority of my income is earned this way. I also do missions when the mood strikes me, and dabble in trading.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#125 - 2013-04-17 17:38:52 UTC
Also, if Titans are the ships in question, those are most often purchased with Corp or Alliance funds... not directly out of someone's wallet. There are exceptions of course.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Rocketfeller
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2013-04-17 17:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rocketfeller
Jenn aSide wrote:
...50 mil is literally nothing at all in EVE. A Tech1 battleship can make 15-25 mil isk every 20 minutes doing null sec anomalies or high sec incursions...

I have my gameplay set up to where I can PVE for 45 mins to 1 hour per day and pay for all my accounts via plex in 10 or 12 days. Hell, sometimes on the weekends (when my wife is at work and my kids are gone off to get into whatever trouble they can find) I can make enough exploring or doing incursions to pay for all 4 accounts with plex.

Even doing the workaday grind I do, making isk is so ridiculously easy it's almost unbalanced lol.


If 50 million represents 40-60 minutes of "work" in EVE, then how is it nothing? That's what I was trying to get at with my question. If someone tosses me 50 million ISK and says it's nothing, I hope they didn't have to work 40 minutes for it. "Work" may not be the best choice of words here, and one man's grind may be another mans relaxing gameplay. Anyway, as a noob I expect to work harder to accumulate the capital and other resources that will let me work smarter for better rewards later in the game. But making 10 million ISK by mining veldspar somehow does not, in my mind, translate into "Now do that 999 more times and you'll have 10 billion!" Because while technically true, the 1000th load is a lot less enjoyable than the first.
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-04-17 18:11:33 UTC
It may represent an hour of work for some, or 1 minute of work for others. It's never nothing, but it can certainly be trivial enough not to be cared about. There are ways to make billions an hour but it often requires knowledge, capital, friends, and/or SP.

Many of the people in this thread see you as the kind of new player we want more of in the game. Someone who will make it and not whine that the game is unfair and should be changed to suit their wishes. 50m is well worth encouraging someone who will make it to stick with the game. (Unless this is a meta-scam and that's what you're counting on Blink)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2013-04-17 18:47:39 UTC
The only thing the OP did wrong. Put all eggs in one basket. to fly somethign he coudl not afford to loose.

Just learn this never spend more than 1/3 of your isk in a ship and you will be fine. Yes that does mean you needed 1.2 Bil to hae a retriever and not want to eat your shoes when you loose one.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#129 - 2013-04-17 18:56:47 UTC
Rocketfeller wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


If 50 million represents 40-60 minutes of "work" in EVE


more like 15 to 20 mins for me, I was using a single T1 BS as a basline, I use a Machariel (Blessed be it's name) lol.
Quote:

, then how is it nothing?


I'm drinking beer and eating hot wings while ratting, I don't even realize Im doing it :) .

Quote:

That's what I was trying to get at with my question. If someone tosses me 50 million ISK and says it's nothing, I hope they didn't have to work 40 minutes for it. "Work" may not be the best choice of words here, and one man's grind may be another mans relaxing gameplay. Anyway, as a noob I expect to work harder to accumulate the capital and other resources that will let me work smarter for better rewards later in the game. But making 10 million ISK by mining veldspar somehow does not, in my mind, translate into "Now do that 999 more times and you'll have 10 billion!" Because while technically true, the 1000th load is a lot less enjoyable than the first.


Everyone is different. If you're asking how to make isk without working, I can't help with that, I'm no fat cat industrialist.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#130 - 2013-04-17 18:59:26 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Also, if Titans are the ships in question, those are most often purchased with Corp or Alliance funds... not directly out of someone's wallet. There are exceptions of course.


A Few Years ago my corp CEO at the time (who has since stopped playing the game) bought a Titan with isk he got solely from ratting, just to prove that it could be done. he was pretty freaking insane like that, we saw him online but didn't here much from him for many weeks lol.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-04-17 19:26:57 UTC
Rocketfeller wrote:

The first rule of EVE is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". That's pretty self-explanatory. And there are ships in the game that cost tens of billions of ISK. The pilots of these ships have been around a while. So can they really afford to lose what they are flying?


It's self-explanatory and it's not at the same time. Some people take it to literally mean I have a second one, or enough ISK to buy it back, or something along those lines. I see it more as "You undocked in it, you're not allowed to cry over the loss". ISK really has little to do with it.

Individuals fly multi-billion isk ships. But most of those ships are used in PvE and go for years without being lost. The ones who use them in PvP can hardly afford to lose them on a daily basis. The Super Capital (and to an extent Capital) ships are more of a Corp/Alliance asset piloted by a member. They are funded through organization owned assets and taxes spread over hundreds if not thousands of members.

Rocketfeller wrote:
If 50 million represents 40-60 minutes of "work" in EVE, then how is it nothing? That's what I was trying to get at with my question.

The same way buying someone you like a $5 drink at the bar, is nothing for someone who makes $15 an hour.

In EvE, that's a little over a fitted cruiser. I'd go fight in and lose one just for lulz. My usual cheap implants are worth twice that. But at the same time, it's not like every time you undock in a PvP fitted ship you wake up in your medical clone. Some times you just don't get a fight and come back. Some times you win the fight and come back with loot. Some times you run away to fight another day. Losing a fight doesn't necessarily equate to losing a ship. Holding a target down is a challenge and a big part of why people are more than happy to have an extra rookie in a small fast ship to help pin it down for the kill.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#132 - 2013-04-17 19:52:19 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:


It's self-explanatory and it's not at the same time. Some people take it to literally mean I have a second one, or enough ISK to buy it back, or something along those lines. I see it more as "You undocked in it, you're not allowed to cry over the loss". ISK really has little to do with it.


I frequently fly expensive ships and lose them and I retain the right to cry like a baby while smashing keyboards against walls.

I simply do so in private, not on the forums lol.
Quote:

But at the same time, it's not like every time you undock in a PvP fitted ship you wake up in your medical clone..


You need to speak for yourself, not only do i always die, hell, I got podded in a station once, while ship spinning. I'm THAT bad at EVE, crap that isn't even possible happen!
Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
#133 - 2013-04-17 20:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Stonkeep
Rocketfeller wrote:

If 50 million represents 40-60 minutes of "work" in EVE, then how is it nothing? That's what I was trying to get at with my question. If someone tosses me 50 million ISK and says it's nothing, I hope they didn't have to work 40 minutes for it. "Work" may not be the best choice of words here, and one man's grind may be another mans relaxing gameplay. Anyway, as a noob I expect to work harder to accumulate the capital and other resources that will let me work smarter for better rewards later in the game. But making 10 million ISK by mining veldspar somehow does not, in my mind, translate into "Now do that 999 more times and you'll have 10 billion!" Because while technically true, the 1000th load is a lot less enjoyable than the first.



It entirely depends on what you are doing. If you are just doing something purely to make ISK, you will start to hate yourself pretty fast. Like you said, if you do not like mining but you do it anyway to make ISK than you have pretty much missed the reason why to play a game.

ISK making is easy with pretty much any carrier path you choose. The most important thing is to choose what you really like. After that you will make ISK if you have some sense. Also, you need to realize that people who have more than 100b in their wallet are very rare. They are likely less than 10% of whole EvE population.

Do whatever you like and make sure to maximize your income and as long as the ISK you have is enough for you to have fun than you have enough ISK to not worry about it.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2013-04-17 20:21:48 UTC
You know the saying the bigger you are the harder you fall.

Well to get started in eve its the other way round, the harder your fall the bigger you become.

At some point that does switch around again if you start trusting anyone as much as you trust yourself.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Rocketfeller
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2013-04-17 20:37:09 UTC
Stonkeep wrote:
...It entirely depends on what you are doing. If you are just doing something purely to make ISK, you will start to hate yourself pretty fast. Like you said, if you do not like mining but you do it anyway to make ISK than you have pretty much missed the reason why to play a game.

ISK making is easy with pretty much any carrier path you choose. The most important thing is to choose what you really like. After that you will make ISK if you have some sense. Also, you need to realize that people who have more than 100b in their wallet are very rare. They are likely less than 10% of whole EvE population.

Do whatever you like and make sure to maximize your income and as long as the ISK you have is enough for you to have fun than you have enough ISK to not worry about it.


I think I have it now. At least that nagging "cognitive dissonance" is resolved.

Mining is "easy" to do, but it isn't for me. PI may be very lucrative and some people may like it, but it definitely is not for me. Scamming is out. "Meta scamming" seems to have potential, but I'll pass on that, too. Trading seems like it may work well for me, but probably more as a stepping stone to enable me to try a couple of other things. If there is such thing as a half-time carebear industrialist, half-time PVPer, that may be me in a year.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to help - if I can ever hero tackle somebody for you, just let me know!

Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2013-04-17 23:59:16 UTC
I recently lost 2 Apocs to highsec npc's, i wasn't paying attention because im used to shield tanking in a drake. Broke as ****, still playing.
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-04-18 00:03:26 UTC
Honestly, I would suggest considering stickying this thread and moving it to new players. As a new player I have found it very instructive.

Private sig. Do not read.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#138 - 2013-04-18 01:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Rocketfeller wrote:
If there is such thing as a half-time carebear industrialist, half-time PVPer, that may be me in a year.
You'll find some PvPers will have an industry, trade or PvE alt, it funds explosions, you can do it on one account if you use your 3 alt slots properly.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Rocketfeller
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2013-04-18 01:27:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You'll find some PvPers will have an industry, trade or PvE alt, it funds explosions, you can do it on one account if you use your 3 alt slots properly.

Makes sense in the long run, but because I'd have to choose which character to train skills on, I'm afraid it would end up compromising all three. Maybe I need separate accounts until the characters are skilled enough, and then I could combine them back into one account. That's assuming there is such thing as "skilled enough". Maybe I just need alts that are productive enough to plex their accounts.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#140 - 2013-04-18 13:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Transferring characters between accounts will cost you, I'm not sure what the cost is exactly but $20 a character rings a bell.

What you could do is train your combat character for ship class specialisation at first, for example specialise in your racial frigate, get the weapons and support skills trained up and the T2 versions prerequisites done, and then train up the other two characters for specialised roles, a trade alt doesn't take long, and you can have a character in a battlecruiser (barely but in it) in a very short time, and then back to your combat character.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack