Crime & Punishment

Why do the miners whine endlessly about suicide-warfare experts, anyway?

Miners are just as capable of insuring their Retrievers and Covetors and keep their losses to a minimum as well.

So what is all the fuss about

the fuss is about the fact that they refuse to fly retrievers and covetors and instead use the overpriced exhumers.

So, miners insist on risking non-insurable T2 Exhumers (and reaping the yield benefits) but, then complain about the economics of it when someone trades a less capable, but insurable T1 for it?

Wow. Talk about limp pebnis.

Maybe they should just ask the alpha-warfare experts nicely to start using T2 Sniper HACs and Marauders, just to make it fair and both parties suffer appropriately?

the insurance pay out should be 50% for concorded ships.

this skews the risk/reward/cost effectiveness equation in a slightly different flavour requiring more back end work on the part of the gankers to develop any profit from it.

while there are always entities interested in tears, the more common approach would be industrial warfare such as hulkageddon (and their ilk, competitive mining for instance, market cornering by product fall off vs demand, you get the drift) to promote the profit interests of 'producers' over 'gankers'. this means that such actions would more than likely be done via mercenary style contracts and informal bounties.

Moved from General Discussion.

Because these threads are ******** as are the ones creating them.

either remove insurance or not

dont bring suicides into this

Because people fear change.

You just don't get it do you, you are a minority. The game is a dark, risky game, but the majoity of the player base are carebears without which YOU DON'T HAVE A GAME TO PLAY.

Now read the next bit carefully: The game needs to be a challenge and mustn't spoon feed the players, but neither must it drive them away.

You say the game isn't like other games, but it isn't unique. There have been much tougher PvP games than Eve, with true open world PvP, but they all die a slow and painful death as a game needs to be financially viable and in a PvP game someone has to lose. By having a lot of carebears, the number that lose is a small percentage of the player base. If they all left you wouldn't have a game to play, yet you would have got exactly what you asked for. It is the people like you that destroy the game you like so much, as you are incapable of seeing the game for what it is, outside of your avatar's blinkered perception of the game.

I haven't read the rest of this thread but essentially all you are doing is cutting poor pilots out of ganking.

Let me put it to you this way: before Goonswarm Federation started Gallente Ice Interdiction, i bought 25million units of oxygen isotopes at 440 isk/unit (11bil isk invested). I then sold those oxytopes at 1200 isk/unit (30bil isk returned).

I have enough isk to suicide gank for years. Concord insurance makes no impact on my choice to kill your stuff. Most "professional" suicide gankers have similar stories. Their wealth comes from other means and they are going to wreck you for laughs, not for profit. So changing the insurance policy makes no difference to them and they are probably the largest portion of suicide gankers.

So who does removing insurance hurt?

Scenario 1: The clueless newbie. At one point in our eve careers we were all this guy. I'm sure we all have stories about how we were blown up in empire by concord with no idea what we did wrong. Sometime back in 2007 when I first started, I was repping some corpmate doing missions in my Exqueror, a salvager/loot stealer came in, my corpmate did something to him, and concord blew up my corpmate and my exequeror. I have no idea what I did, thinking back it was probably because I'd assigned my drones to the corpmate.

Regardless, my clueless corpmate and I doing L4 missions died to Concord for no other reason than being bothered by a buzzard in a mission. No insurance payout in the world you are proposing for the reason of being helplessly new at the game. Let's not ignore all the Concord executions that occur during Empire Incursions. Some of those are pure accidents. No insurance payouts there?

Scenario 2: The guy wanting to try something new. In your adolescent phase of Eve Online, you are still trying to figure out who you want to be. A miner? A mission runner? A 0.0 bitter political arm-chair general? A low-sec pirate? An NPC 0.0 pirate? A mercenary corp? An empire war-dec corp? An inventory, production, market, or logistics services? A scammer? A ganker? Most of us have tried several roles and the biggest barriers to entry are the initial capital cost. You don't leap into moon mining or capital ship production because they cost billions of isk in start-up capital. Instead you stick to areas that are cheap to get into with minimal losses if you find you don't like it.

Your proposed changes would essential create a barrier of entry for trying out empire ganking. Empire ganking would become the province of the individually wealthy, the elite, those for whom price is no object. The poor huddled masses will be excluded from trying out this hilariously fun past-time because you've introduced a barrier of entry to keep them from even trying out the sport. How very Republican of you. Let's watch Fox News together while clubbing baby seals.

So for the tldr crowd: your proposed changes make no difference to the truly dedicated crowd while hurting a lot more people than your intent.