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Moving All Level 4 Agents to Low-Sec

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Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#241 - 2013-04-17 15:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Le Badass
March rabbit wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room.

the funny thing is: you don't need to tackle, kill or anything carebear. You just need to make his mission impossible to complete and you win.

Scan him and visit in his mission -> he warps away
wait for him to return
visit him in his mission -> he warps away

repeat this a couple of times and you killed all profit from mission. You didn't kill carebear (it matters to you) but you killed his profit (it matters to him).
And carebear has nothing to protect himself from killing his profit by pirates. Which is plain stupid


Oh God... Shocked
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#242 - 2013-04-17 15:54:29 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room.

the funny thing is: you don't need to tackle, kill or anything carebear. You just need to make his mission impossible to complete and you win.

Scan him and visit in his mission -> he warps away
wait for him to return
visit him in his mission -> he warps away

repeat this a couple of times and you killed all profit from mission. You didn't kill carebear (it matters to you) but you killed his profit (it matters to him).
And carebear has nothing to protect himself from killing his profit by pirates. Which is plain stupid


And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away?

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2013-04-17 15:58:30 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate.


hmmm

nice movie for little children Lol
never watched tho. maybe i should show it to my 7 yo daughter?

Moneta Curran wrote:
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" Roll

haven't got your point here tho. explain a little?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#244 - 2013-04-17 16:03:09 UTC
As a highsec solo player I'd have no reason to own, or skill for battleships if level 4 missions were moved to lowsec. I think that would take a huge chunk out of the game for me. I probably would quit at that point. Level 4's provide just enough variety on top of industry to make highsec worth sticking around for. Tried the nullsec lifestyle a few years ago and hated it....and I imagine there are many pilots like me around. Shrug.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2013-04-17 16:13:50 UTC
Random Majere wrote:
And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away?

me?
i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy

or i drop a cyno....

Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Kangaax
Money in da bank
#246 - 2013-04-17 16:16:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kangaax
Since it seems pirates created yet another "more free targets in lowsec pls", i will suggest another thing:
What about in lowsec, the police still spawns in a delay relative to the security status of the system up to 1 minute, BUT make it faction police and not CONCORD. This way you could get away even after a police intervention, and it balances the risk for pirates when you get jumped on - because they all talk about risk vs reward, but it's so risky jumping a PVE ship it makes my head spin. Basically, you get a 30s-1min timer after aggressing someone before you have to run.
This way moving lvl4 missions to lowsec would not end up in noone doing them anymore.
Deal?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#247 - 2013-04-17 16:17:20 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Random Majere wrote:
And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away?

me?
i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy

or i drop a cyno....

Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear

Wow. You are so brave. Roll
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#248 - 2013-04-17 16:23:58 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Random Majere wrote:
And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away?

me?
i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy

or i drop a cyno....

Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear


You drop a cyno in high sec? I guess your talking about mission runners in low and NPC null then.

Also, why would you not solo the guy? Are you afraid of being in a 1 vs 1?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#249 - 2013-04-17 16:39:17 UTC
Mei Sui wrote:
Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.

One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec


This does not apply, neither to RL nor to EvE, that tries imitating some "realism flavour" (the famous "EvE is real!" motto).

So, no, you are wrong since the premise and thus your whole argument is invalidated.



Moreover, making EvE as linear, predictable and canned as WoW (i.e. canned progression, canned rewards etc.) is certainly not an EvE way to implement a MMO.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2013-04-17 16:44:25 UTC
Random Majere wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Random Majere wrote:
And if the missioner comes back with a PvP fitted ship...do you warp away?

me?
i call my mates and we kill him with our gang. Because 99% of mission runners are in NPC corp and have no friends (another "fact" from forums) it will be easy

or i drop a cyno....

Anyway: pirate has initiative in this situation. Not carebear


You drop a cyno in high sec? I guess your talking about mission runners in low and NPC null then.

i would advice you to read few first posts of this thread Lol
at least read thread topic Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-04-17 17:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
March rabbit wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate.


hmmm

nice movie for little children Lol
never watched tho. maybe i should show it to my 7 yo daughter?

Moneta Curran wrote:
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" Roll

haven't got your point here tho. explain a little?


It is a nice one, I was around her age when it came out.
My point is that with motives so directly at odds with each other, there's never going to be a middle ground here.

Consider that those who do engage in PvP have chosen not to limit their adventures to the 'challenge' of defeating predictable NPCs in forever repeating scenario's.. they can do all that and more. Even if we can recognize that it is relaxing and carefree, it's not very.. respectable.. to forever hide behind CONCORD.

edit: it's sorta like staying at home masturbating vs. going out and trying to get laid.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2013-04-17 17:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Moneta Curran wrote:

My point is that with motives so directly at odds with each other, there's never going to be a middle ground here.

well. it worked in RL (times of sea pirates and Columb).
How did it work? Just few my ideas:
- big reward: one succeeded trip makes you crazy rich, you don't need to make another trip
(Eve Online: 1 lvl4 makes you 25-30millions for 1-2 hours. You need to have 200 millions BS to complete it)
- big ocean, you can move for a days without any contacts if you are lucky
(Eve Online: you entered local, everybody noticed it, 1 cycle of d-scan - your ship already known, a couple of seconds and your mission area is pinpointed and ready to warp to)
- dangers: all ships deal with the same dangers - ocean, wind, other people. No bears and no PvPers there.
(Eve Online: PvE missions need completely different fits than useful for PvP)
- maybe something?

Looks like we have had these factors in Eve Online some years ago. But now....

I think there is nothing impossible to implement here.

Moneta Curran wrote:
... respectable..

i fear that this word is not known in Eve Online these days Sad

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2013-04-17 17:25:03 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

Moneta Curran wrote:
... respectable..

i fear that this word is not known in Eve Online these days Sad


Nah.. that's not true.. it's what makes people set each other blue. You show some teeth and you are recognized for it.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#254 - 2013-04-17 19:25:09 UTC
Anunzi wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


[...]
The fix to PvE is better PvE, not PvP. There is no way to force into PvP someone not willing to. They will rather quit than play your way.
[...]



I think a solution to lot of EvE’s issues from my perspective would be to make pve play more like pvp.

Its something that has always baffled me about EvE, why should the same hull require a completely different setup to fight ships controlled by players and ships controlled by npcs.

When you really think about it, it makes very little sense.

That way ratters/mission runners/explorers would not be at a inherent disadvantage against pvp fit ships.


Well, at one point, I suggested something like that. Add new agents that led to mission that required a PvP-like fit to succeed.

Regretfully, CCP read that their way and the last we knew was a hint that maybe ALL PvE would be changed to require PvP -like fits, through AI changes. It would be very typical for CCP to destroy PvE fits in the assumption that someone who invested months, endless hours and several billions in one of those fits, won't object to have al that scrapped because CCP "knows better". Roll

What really pisses me off, is how certain play styles are considered, not "underdeveloped" or "abandoned for years" or "ugly ducklings", but "wrong" and thus must be "corrected" and become like "cool" gameplay...
IrJosy
Club 1621
#255 - 2013-04-17 23:38:23 UTC
Make mission runners easier to hunt and kill too please. Scanning them with probes is hard.
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#256 - 2013-04-17 23:50:13 UTC
This discussion has been going on for years.

All i see is a bunch of losec bums wanting losec to be buffed/hisec being nerfed and
hisec bears wanting things to stay as is.

give losec more content and leave this whole l4 missioncatastrophe in hisec. they like it.
Everybody saying l4 mission should be moved to losec is a bear and should be in hisec.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#257 - 2013-04-18 00:28:52 UTC
I would go to lowsec if there was anything worth the risk, L4 as they are, are not worth the risk.
iskflakes
#258 - 2013-04-18 00:36:08 UTC
This is a very good idea.

-
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#259 - 2013-04-18 01:03:39 UTC
Kangaax wrote:
Since it seems pirates created yet another "more free targets in lowsec pls", i will suggest another thing:
What about in lowsec, the police still spawns in a delay relative to the security status of the system up to 1 minute, BUT make it faction police and not CONCORD. This way you could get away even after a police intervention, and it balances the risk for pirates when you get jumped on - because they all talk about risk vs reward, but it's so risky jumping a PVE ship it makes my head spin. Basically, you get a 30s-1min timer after aggressing someone before you have to run.
This way moving lvl4 missions to lowsec would not end up in noone doing them anymore.
Deal?




This would be interesting. I can imagine a chance for escape but not a I WIN button for the mission runner, while throwing in occasional officer spawn on that faction police spawn could mean more loot for the lowsec crowd.

I would also manage the response time more around the standings of the mission runner and where the mission runner is. If someone with high Gallente faction goes into Amarr lowsec where he has low Amarr faction standings, he's on his own. If he goes to Gallente lowsec he's got a chance of aid based on that faction standing.

The higher the faction standing the faster the response AND/OR the better the spawn. This is a seesaw really: a high standing meaning a fast response means that researching the target in local could decide if the pirate team can handle it, but if the size of the response is also improved (more chance of officer spawn) then the offending side could also gauge more reward for the additional risk. The ship they are targeting could also be a factor - is your target in brutally tanked ship that could last long enough for help to arrive or is it merely a T1 cruiser that will go pop under a few Thrashers?

But it would also be prudent for there to be faction standings losses for every time they gotta send the Navy to go rescue your ass so it's not abused.

I think that kind of compromise would make lowsec stop being a garanteed loss and increase the action in lowsec along with potential for more loot.

Still, since it's not in the paradigm of total ship raep masquerading as PVP, nobody would support such an idea.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2013-04-18 01:29:00 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Still, since it's not in the paradigm of total ship raep masquerading as PVP, nobody would support such an idea.



So this intervention force would swoop down to save you upon any act of aggression? Roll

.. and you want this pet NPC patrol to become stronger the more dedicated a carebear you have been in past ages?
I am sure newbies everywhere will applaud the idea of having even less of a fighting chance.

TBH the whole idea sucks, you are basically advocating bringing CONCORD to low sec. I suppose the concept of having to fend for yourself is just too alien to consider...