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Moving All Level 4 Agents to Low-Sec

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Eisen Kern
Doomheim
#221 - 2013-04-17 12:22:03 UTC
If there's a change to the accessibility of agent missions, it should be to add level 5's to high sec rather than to remove level 4's. Removing content from players rarely goes down as well as adding content.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#222 - 2013-04-17 12:37:08 UTC
Three words: Level 6 Missions

Put those babies in null. Make the payout stupidly high. Watch the null sec alliances be crushed by a tidal wave of ISK-hungry carebears stampeding into their space to get at the ultimate carebear experience.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2013-04-17 12:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room.
More often than not the acceleration gate lands you miles and miles away, with no way to warp on top of him (dead space).

This leaves you with the option to burn to him, with rats deciding to dps/neut the newcomer, giving your target ample time to warp off. If that's not a level playing field, I don't know what is... it is actually far easier to gank an explorer.

Of course, few carebears actually realize this, as they are simply too cowardly to try.
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2013-04-17 12:58:18 UTC
I endorse the OP's product and/or service.

Also confirming I just want to watch the world burn

Kill it with Fire!

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2013-04-17 13:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Moneta Curran wrote:
The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room.

the funny thing is: you don't need to tackle, kill or anything carebear. You just need to make his mission impossible to complete and you win.

Scan him and visit in his mission -> he warps away
wait for him to return
visit him in his mission -> he warps away

repeat this a couple of times and you killed all profit from mission. You didn't kill carebear (it matters to you) but you killed his profit (it matters to him).
And carebear has nothing to protect himself from killing his profit by pirates. Which is plain stupid

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2013-04-17 13:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
I see your point, but if he warps off he kills my profit too: the loot from his wreck. I don't consider it a "win" if he doesn't explode.

Another way to deal with harassment is to trap the pirate on the gate, but I guess I should know better than to imagine that a likely course of action for your dedicated mission runner...

What is it about isk that makes it the sole driving force that trumps any other consideration for you? Really....
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#227 - 2013-04-17 13:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Marlona Sky wrote:
My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.


So, every player should be forced to learn to be like you? Play your way or go away? Is that the best you can come with?

The fix to PvE is better PvE, not PvP. There is no way to force into PvP someone not willing to. They will rather quit than play your way.

And something may be really wrong with PvP, provided the amounts of whine the PvP bunch drops on the forums.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2013-04-17 13:50:11 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
The funny thing is that it's not even that simple to tackle a mission runner in a dead space room...
Shocked It isn't! I didn't know that.

Awhile back my Corp was wardec by a pirate corp. Since I believe in know your enemy, I began following the killboard (wins, losses and loadouts) and putting them all on contacts... to watch and learn. While many of them were impressive in their abilities one stood out over the others. This toon was killing mission runners on the order of six a day. Faction battleship, Tengus, etc. While my knowledge of what it takes to do this is limited at best, I had to believe this is a player with a strong understanding of the game and very good combat skills. Impressive.

You are telling me that it is even harder than I thought?

All I can say. Pirate
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2013-04-17 13:54:35 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Impressive.
You are telling me that it is even harder than I thought?

All I can say. Pirate


I don't know who or where he was hunting and certainly, killboards don't tell you where he caught them beyond the system.. be it on a gate or in dead space or wherever.

What I can safely say is that you should consider the possibility that his victims were extremely ignorant and/or stupid.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2013-04-17 14:01:56 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
"...The reason why most players avoid and/or hate PvP is due to a lack of knowledge brought about via missioning..."
The reason most players avoid active PvP... is that isn't what they want to do. Trying to force them to seek it out will fail. You would be better off advocate helping those who want to or might want PvP, but are unable to find that path. You are pushing the concept that 'those people' don't know what is good for them, but you do. Change the game to force them to play a 'style'.

There are people in this game that no interest in seeking out PvP... they never will.

Note: There is huge difference in the game allowing ganking (PvP) and trying to force people into combat ships that have no interest.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-04-17 14:08:43 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:


I don't know who or where he was hunting and certainly, killboards don't tell you where he caught them beyond the system.. be it on a gate or in dead space or wherever.

What I can safely say is that you should consider the possibility that his victims were extremely ignorant and/or stupid.
Rats were on the kill mails in highsec, so I guessed while ratting. I could be wrong.

I will not comment on the intelligence on the thousands killed, just the skill of this player. You indicated it was harder than I thought... I am more impressed with that players abilities.
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2013-04-17 14:15:19 UTC
Shouldnt it be a case of some missions send you to lowsec - those should be 'doubly' rewarded? Lets say you get 5k LP for 'The Assault' in 0.5 - then make it 20k in 0.4, 30k 0.2 etc. Not specifically all missions, but enough to 'tease' those in that want the rewards.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2013-04-17 14:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:

I will not comment on the intelligence on the thousands killed, just the skill of this player. You indicated it was harder than I thought... I am more impressed with that players abilities.


That's cool, no arguing with you there.

Was his the solo ship on these mails? Was he flying something cloaked? Regardless of sec status of the particular systems the ganks occured in, one would think they should have been aware of his presence.. AFAIK there are no missions in WH space.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2013-04-17 14:56:53 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
I see your point, but if he warps off he kills my profit too: the loot from his wreck. I don't consider it a "win" if he doesn't explode.

yes, this is your point

Moneta Curran wrote:
What is it about isk that makes it the sole driving force that trumps any other consideration for you? Really....

this is carebear point: you spend some time on mission. If you haven't got any profit - you lost.

Using pirate language: you spend some hours roaming and returned without any fights. This is lost.

Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2013-04-17 15:00:06 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Three words: Level 6 Missions

Watch the null sec alliances be crushed by a tidal wave of ISK-hungry carebears stampeding into their space to get at the ultimate carebear experience.


and then you woke up

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Ginger Barbarella
#236 - 2013-04-17 15:12:17 UTC
Mei Sui wrote:
Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.

One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation.

Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills.

While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec)

There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer.

Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away! P


You really don't get it, do you? Or you're just trolling the same, tired line...

It's almost cute. Almost.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Anunzi
Solace Corp
#237 - 2013-04-17 15:18:20 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


[...]
The fix to PvE is better PvE, not PvP. There is no way to force into PvP someone not willing to. They will rather quit than play your way.
[...]



I think a solution to lot of EvE’s issues from my perspective would be to make pve play more like pvp.

Its something that has always baffled me about EvE, why should the same hull require a completely different setup to fight ships controlled by players and ships controlled by npcs.

When you really think about it, it makes very little sense.

That way ratters/mission runners/explorers would not be at a inherent disadvantage against pvp fit ships.

"It was the way she said it, Rimmer, to rhyme with scum"
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2013-04-17 15:20:07 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate.


hmmm
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?" Roll
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2013-04-17 15:23:33 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
this is carebear point: you spend some time on mission. If you haven't got any profit - you lost.

Using pirate language: you spend some hours roaming and returned without any fights. This is lost.

Question "what is it about ISK that makes ...." towards carebear is like "what is it about KILLS that makes ..." towards pirate.

QFT.

The problem, I think, is that someone that accepts PVP as the only way to enjoy and have fun in Eve won't understand that there are players that enjoy doing missions, mining, exploring, etc.

As you point out, a (pure) mission runner is in lo sec to run missions. Interrupting his missions has already defeated his purpose for being there in the first place.

I use the word "pure" because there will be other types of mission runners, such as those looking to add a bit of more danger to their playstyle. For these guys the extra risk and excitement is worth the loss in profits. They won't mind being constantly interrupted. But, I suspect these players may already be in lo sec, in which case the OP again, accomplishes at best, minimal to no results.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
#240 - 2013-04-17 15:40:32 UTC
Have no fear.

CCP (or some subset within the corp) is intent on wrecking high sec income. Expect some kind of nerf to mission-running announced at Fanfest or slipped into the patch notes before June 4th.

What it will be is up in the air.
Could be new taxes on mission runners, could be a reduction in bounties, could be a big nerf in loot drops (again).

I am betting on the loot drops getting hammered even more than they were last year, plus refining taxes and loss of 100% high sec refine. The last one hits all of high sec, which is why I expect to see that one put in place.