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School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 108
Ryuu Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 108	#181 - 2013-04-16 23:46:20 UTC I for one welcome our new cruise missile overlords but the raven still needs help _Noob _isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head. Sun Tzu

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 355
Galphii Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 355	#182 - 2013-04-17 00:00:09 UTC 1 Excellent fixes - I had hoped that cruise missiles would become the 2nd best volley weapon for BS and you've made it come true. Bloody fantastic "Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

mynnna

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,900

#183 - 2013-04-17 00:02:38 UTC

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Steve Spooner wrote:

Pedo Torps Pedo Torps because I shouldn't have to fit 2 target painters to hit a battleship for full damage.

Don't forget that Many BS's are getting a Sig.Rad. Increase with the rebalance.

Not to mention guided missile precision applies to torpedos now, so with that maxed out, your explosion radius is 337.5m anyway. The smallest sig radius BS (post Odyssey) will be the Typhoon, at 330m. If you're shooting one of those (and it's going slower than 106.5m/s) you lose about 2.2% of your DPS.

The effect of speed on the explosion radius is much more significant - the actual DPS loss against that Typhoon is about 24.5% of on-paper DPS, assuming its base speed of 143m/s. That said, that's 75% of ~940 DPS Blink

Numbers vary with Rage torps, of course. You'll want a target painter (or two or three) then!

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Old and Petrified Syndication 452
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication Likes received: 452	#184 - 2013-04-17 00:04:41 UTC Interesting. Overall damage increase offset by a PG need increase and a decrease of about 1/3rd the range (base flight from 20 to 14 seconds). Get closer... but punch harder. Works for me. Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space. Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 1,264
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork Likes received: 1,264	#185 - 2013-04-17 00:08:10 UTC Petrified wrote: Interesting. Overall damage increase offset by a PG need increase and a decrease of about 1/3rd the range (base flight from 20 to 14 seconds). Get closer... but punch harder. Works for me. The increase in cruise velocity means an overall range loss of only 12% or so.

mynnna

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,900

#186 - 2013-04-17 00:08:54 UTC

Gypsio III wrote:

Petrified wrote:

Interesting. Overall damage increase offset by a PG need increase and a decrease of about 1/3rd the range (base flight from 20 to 14 seconds). Get closer... but punch harder. Works for me.

The increase in cruise velocity means an overall range loss of only 12% or so.

And seeing as if you're trying to fight past 150km, you're going to find yourself fighting at 0km very quickly anyway, I don't think anyone will miss the last 30km of range Lol

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

StrongSmartSexy

Phenix Revolution

Likes received: 15

#187 - 2013-04-17 00:18:52 UTC

mynnna wrote:

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Steve Spooner wrote:

Pedo Torps Pedo Torps because I shouldn't have to fit 2 target painters to hit a battleship for full damage.

Don't forget that Many BS's are getting a Sig.Rad. Increase with the rebalance.

Numbers vary with Rage torps, of course. You'll want a target painter (or two or three) then!

Yeah, Rage torps need tweaking. Lower explosion velocity than t1/faction and huge explosion radius requires GMP V and multiple support modules to apply that damage.

I'm also not a fan of how Fury missile explosion radius is 72% larger than T1/faction.
With the 10% increase in explosion radius for all missiles, T2 Fury Cruise missiles will have a base radius of 568m and a radius of 426m with GMP V.

Shingorash

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 60

#188 - 2013-04-17 00:21:44 UTC

Those of you complaining about the explosion radius increase I have to wonder if you have ever used Cruise missiles.

I use a Cruise fit Navy Scorp in our C3 wormhole and I spank the Cruisers for pretty much full damage when they are not MWD'ing.

Sure on a PVP fit you wouldnt have a full rig set of T2 flare or rigor rigs but you would still be able to use the amazing ammo called Precision Missiles.

On my SNI to explosion radius on Precision is about 150 and the explosion velocity is about the same. 1 web on a frigate and you hit them for about 50% damage.

The 30% increase in dps for me is huge, the slighty penalty in explosion radius isnt really going to have that much of an effect.

My SNI has 2 target painters, 2 rigor rigs (third rig is a anti therm because of wormhole rats omni damage) and a web. Anything frigate or cruiser sized melts to Precision and bs take full damage from furys.

The 30% damage bonus is massive, its quite possibly the best change for Odyssey I have seen so far.

Damage application with missiles is a totally different ballgame to guns. Some people here I think dont fully understand the implications. This change is brilliant from my perspective.

My fit is on Battleclinic at the moment. You can drop to T2 for similar respectable figures for level 4's. A web helps a lot but its missing from this fit.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65517-Scorpion-Navy-Issue-Wormhole-PVE.html


Shingorash School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 60	#189 - 2013-04-17 00:28:01 UTC Edey wrote: I've been doing PvE since 06 and believe me I know how to fit ships. I lol'd, you clearly dont.

Shingorash

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 60

#190 - 2013-04-17 00:30:07 UTC

StrongSmartSexy wrote:

mynnna wrote:

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Steve Spooner wrote:

Pedo Torps Pedo Torps because I shouldn't have to fit 2 target painters to hit a battleship for full damage.

Don't forget that Many BS's are getting a Sig.Rad. Increase with the rebalance.

Numbers vary with Rage torps, of course. You'll want a target painter (or two or three) then!

You sure those numbers are right? They seem too high from memory.

StrongSmartSexy

Phenix Revolution

Likes received: 15

#191 - 2013-04-17 00:32:19 UTC | Edited by: StrongSmartSexy

Shingorash wrote:

I was specifically referring to how viable it is to use T2 Fury cruise missiles against battleship sized targets.
You will need a TP or it will be assumed that you have GMP to V to bring the radius down to 426m, a reasonable figure. But the smaller explosion velocity and larger damage reduction factor is annoying.

My question is, are T2 Fury ever worth using over faction cruise missiles that much?

EDIT: Yes I'm sure about the values:
Heavy Missile base explosion radius is 140m, T2 Fury heavy missile is 240.8m which is 72% larger.
Cruise missile base explosion radius is 300m, T2 Fury is 516m - again 72% larger.
Odyssey cruise missile base radius will be 330m (10% increase in explosion radius for all Cruise Missiles) and subsequently T2 Fury will be 567.6m (425.7m with skills).

Balls Deep Inc. Minmatar Fleet Alliance 939
Dato Koppla Balls Deep Inc. Minmatar Fleet Alliance Likes received: 939	#192 - 2013-04-17 00:35:50 UTC Is the explosion radius increase really necessary? Even without the damage application nerf, Cruises aren't hitting anything below BS size for full damage without significant assistance from multiple rigors/tps.


Shingorash School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State Likes received: 60	#193 - 2013-04-17 00:43:37 UTC Against a battleship yes, anything smaller no, your then in faction or precision territory.

Shingorash

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 60

#194 - 2013-04-17 00:49:31 UTC

Dato Koppla wrote:

Is the explosion radius increase really necessary? Even without the damage application nerf, Cruises aren't hitting anything below BS size for full damage without significant assistance from multiple rigors/tps.

Probably yes, bear in mind missiles dont miss, if you compare long range guns you will soon see they need webs and tp's to hit at close range.

If you increase to exp radius is needed or not is a different matter. Id probably say yes to be honest.

Torps are the odd one out here. Close range high dps guns track better, close range torps "track" worse than cruise. Something needs to be do about torps really more than Cruise.

Dato Koppla

Balls Deep Inc.

Minmatar Fleet Alliance

Likes received: 939

#195 - 2013-04-17 01:16:48 UTC

Yeah missiles don't miss but they also miss out on the all important range-blapping which actually make guns better than missiles against smaller targets, a nerf in damage application certainly isn't helping that fact and it's not like keeping the exp radius the way it is is going to make Cruise missiles a frigate murdering machine.

I agree on the torps though, something needs to be done about torps, they have extremely short range for a large weapon system and on top of that terrible damage application, they only thing they do well is POS bashing.

Skia Aumer

Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC

Likes received: 444

#196 - 2013-04-17 02:03:25 UTC

Shingorash wrote:

Torps are the odd one out here. Close range high dps guns track better, close range torps "track" worse than cruise. Something needs to be do about torps really more than Cruise.

Indeed, just increase their "tracking", reduce base damage as a payoff, and - voila - we've got a new blaster!
Torps are fine as they are, stop whining. If anything, just add a little of flight time.

Doomheim 2,211
Daniel Plain Doomheim Likes received: 2,211	#197 - 2013-04-17 02:23:23 UTC \| Edited by: Daniel Plain 3 @ C C P Rise: i see where you are going and i'm with you mostly. but can we also get target painters that cancel their cycle if their target explodes? i think tractor beams already do this kind of thing so it should be easy to implement right? right? I should buy an Ishtar.

Galvis Kester

Rising from the Chaos

Likes received: 23

#198 - 2013-04-17 02:43:21 UTC

glad to see some changes. im sure this has been considered but why not allow cruise missles be fired without target lock in general direction and once target lock is achieved the missiles head toward target. as long as they have enough fuel they hit the target. Additionally, say you fire missiles at locked target and he warps out or is killed, you can re-direct them towards someone else you have lock on? This may give them more viability for pvp.

mynnna

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,900

#199 - 2013-04-17 02:44:23 UTC | Edited by: mynnna

Dato Koppla wrote:

Actually, they hit any battleship and most battlecruisers for full damage, with the exception being the absurdly fast and low sig Attack battlecruisers. The real point of the explosion radius nerf is to keep Precision missiles from being a little too good against cruisers, though it's more than compensated for by the damage increase - you'll do more DPS to smaller ships regardless.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Strategic Exploration and Development Corp Silent Company 9
Kalla Vera Quiroga Strategic Exploration and Development Corp Silent Company Likes received: 9	#200 - 2013-04-17 03:11:39 UTC Was expecting much improved synergy between target painters with launchers but guess we'll have to see what this new experiment does to balance.