These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Cruise Missiles

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vibramycin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-04-16 17:05:54 UTC
MainDrain wrote:

Figure that has to be a key comment, with the Rate of Fire increasing its got to be a must to reduce the size, as well as the mineral requirements for building them. It shouldnt become more expensive (albeit slightly) to kill a target as a result of these changes, it should remain identical.



pfbt, do you care to back up that assertion, at all, in any way? Who ever promised you that your ammo costs would never go up?

Besides, with a **25% damage buff** your isk/damage costs are going to go _down_ substatially anyway Roll
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#122 - 2013-04-16 17:09:33 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
these changes with the new typhoon... cruise nano phoon anyone?
the new bonus of the phoon sure helps with the dmg application.
maybe not as a main doctrine but a complementary wing?

Yeah, I think that when all is said and done the Typhoon is the main ship that will leverage Cruise missiles the best. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, is done to make Torps more viable on the Raven (and Geddon).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#123 - 2013-04-16 17:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Vibramycin wrote:
MainDrain wrote:

Figure that has to be a key comment, with the Rate of Fire increasing its got to be a must to reduce the size, as well as the mineral requirements for building them. It shouldnt become more expensive (albeit slightly) to kill a target as a result of these changes, it should remain identical.



pfbt, do you care to back up that assertion, at all, in any way? Who ever promised you that your ammo costs would never go up?

Besides, with a **25% damage buff** your isk/damage costs are going to go _down_ substatially anyway Roll

Not to mention that vs any ship that active tanks or receives remote reps a ROF increase will mean that you kill the target more quickly also (it has less time to rep back damage), thus using less ammo.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2013-04-16 17:11:27 UTC
Destoya wrote:
Seems like a very big buff and a significant step towards making cruises viable weapons outside of L4 missions

I do already have some concerns over the relative strength of the turtle-tanking Golem teams that have been used very frequently in the past alliance tournaments and the SCL, but if we can see people start to use fleet comps like ravens or navy scorpions in "real EVE" the benefits far outweigh a change in the AT meta


We're not going to ignore the effect this has on the AT meta, don't worry.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#125 - 2013-04-16 17:18:18 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:


The most flown T3 is the Loki, followed by Proteus > Legion > Tengu.

The most flown BC is the Naga, the most flown combat BC is the Cane.

Wat

If you could notice I spoke of of money making and PVE. Those ways you cover loses not PVP itself. Yes, loki and proteus are very liked but Tengu, gives superior range, and very good dps to any NPC type. Yes it not perfect to every but really good.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#126 - 2013-04-16 17:19:55 UTC
Personally I'd still like to see missiles that are still in flight when their target is destroyed auto switch to the next target you have locked up. Of course they might not have the range left to make it to that target, but it would mean that a lot of those "wasted" volleys would still do some good... leaving the initial travel time delay as the main drawback to long range missile use.

Obviously this would be a very powerful change and would have to be carefully considered. Especially since it would likely mean that a missile boat could simply leave his missile launchers on during a fight, and as long as he had targets locked (and in the order he wanted them) he would be constantly spewing out effective damage.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#127 - 2013-04-16 17:20:48 UTC
Torpedo volume plx. If you're looking at bad battleship weapons, look at all of them.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#128 - 2013-04-16 17:22:01 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:


The most flown T3 is the Loki, followed by Proteus > Legion > Tengu.

The most flown BC is the Naga, the most flown combat BC is the Cane.

Wat

If you could notice I spoke of of money making and PVE. Those ways you cover loses not PVP itself. Yes, loki and proteus are very liked but Tengu, gives superior range, and very good dps to any NPC type. Yes it not perfect to every but really good.

Are you bucking for a price increase for missiles, to make them less economical for PVE purposes?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-04-16 17:22:40 UTC
spare some change????

good start,when will the torpedo thread be posted?
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#130 - 2013-04-16 17:23:26 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:

There is WAY more to PVE than Level 4 missions and blasters are far from useless for PVE. Likewise, while these missiles will be most likely used for PVE activity, they are finally not totally laughable for PVP.

Capless weapons system with decent damage... Isn't the Geddon getting missile slots? Not to mention the Typhoon, Raven, Navy Scorpion, and Rattlesnake.


Its true that PVE is easier to be balanced. But seeing these changes that take place I am afraid that PVE balance is forgotten. And yes, missiles do need buff in PVP.

Geddon will not be a missile boat, yes it gets launcher slots but the main damage system will be drones. You do not get enough bonuses nor slots to make it missile boat. Typhoon perhaps.. Rest are caldari boats that don't count.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#131 - 2013-04-16 17:24:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
these changes with the new typhoon... cruise nano phoon anyone?
the new bonus of the phoon sure helps with the dmg application.
maybe not as a main doctrine but a complementary wing?

Yeah, I think that when all is said and done the Typhoon is the main ship that will leverage Cruise missiles the best. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, is done to make Torps more viable on the Raven (and Geddon).


right now i can not image a situation where the raven will be hands down better than the phoon. In PvP that is.
with the 5th mid slot you even can tank the phoon on shield. maybe raven can have a bigger buffer but phoon is just so much smaller and agile. way better for long range fighting.
Torps don't need much to be "fixed" maybe a little help with application of oomph and they get scary. could make the phoon way overpowered very quickly.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#132 - 2013-04-16 17:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Theia Matova wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:

There is WAY more to PVE than Level 4 missions and blasters are far from useless for PVE. Likewise, while these missiles will be most likely used for PVE activity, they are finally not totally laughable for PVP.

Capless weapons system with decent damage... Isn't the Geddon getting missile slots? Not to mention the Typhoon, Raven, Navy Scorpion, and Rattlesnake.


Its true that PVE is easier to be balanced. But seeing these changes that take place I am afraid that PVE balance is forgotten. And yes, missiles do need buff in PVP.

Geddon will not be a missile boat, yes it gets launcher slots but the main damage system will be drones. You do not get enough bonuses nor slots to make it missile boat. Typhoon perhaps.. Rest are caldari boats that don't count.

The damage (particularly in a mission setting) from 5 torp launchers (even unbonused) will add a significant amount to the overall damage output of a Geddon. Though I doubt we will see much use of Cruise missiles on the Geddon, unless it is fittted to use long range sentries.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#133 - 2013-04-16 17:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
these changes with the new typhoon... cruise nano phoon anyone?
the new bonus of the phoon sure helps with the dmg application.
maybe not as a main doctrine but a complementary wing?

Yeah, I think that when all is said and done the Typhoon is the main ship that will leverage Cruise missiles the best. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, is done to make Torps more viable on the Raven (and Geddon).


right now i can not image a situation where the raven will be hands down better than the phoon. In PvP that is.
with the 5th mid slot you even can tank the phoon on shield. maybe raven can have a bigger buffer but phoon is just so much smaller and agile. way better for long range fighting.
Torps don't need much to be "fixed" maybe a little help with application of oomph and they get scary. could make the phoon way overpowered very quickly.

Agreed.

I think any changes made to scanning that might help long range combat in general more viable again could help the Raven when using Cruise.

Range on Torps really helps them to be more practical (and the range bonuses on the Raven is perfect for this), but a careful hand will be needed not to swing them too far in the other direction.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Peter Dostoevsky
Friendly Riot
Good Mental
#134 - 2013-04-16 17:33:12 UTC
Invictor wrote:
Terrible change. Can't hit anything with cruise missiles before and now it's even harder.

ffs


So wait, buffing cruises and slightly changing them so they don't become anti-frigate death machines in the process makes them terrible?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#135 - 2013-04-16 17:38:23 UTC
These changes look extremely promising, but I have to confess that my excitement level spiked high enough that it rang the "may be OP" bell in my head.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2013-04-16 17:47:10 UTC
Hmmm... Bellicose+typhoons?
Ace Echo
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#137 - 2013-04-16 17:56:38 UTC
Peter Dostoevsky wrote:
Invictor wrote:
Terrible change. Can't hit anything with cruise missiles before and now it's even harder.

ffs


So wait, buffing cruises and slightly changing them so they don't become anti-frigate death machines in the process makes them terrible?


I'm pretty sure you'll still be able to hit most non-sigtanking BSes, and little damage to anything smaller that isn't pointed...

... like that isn't already the case for most BS gun scenarios?

If you can milk it, it's an udder.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#138 - 2013-04-16 18:37:32 UTC
What about railguns ? Not only medium ; now large railguns need some love too. :-(
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#139 - 2013-04-16 18:43:16 UTC
Are we getting the Torp changes or not?

Whatever.
Sigras
Conglomo
#140 - 2013-04-16 18:56:48 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey sorry for the signature radius typo. It was meant to be explosion radius. Always getting my radii confused!

It is indeed an increase, which means that more of the damage will be mitigated by size. This will of course be more than offset by the increase in base damage, but the idea is that the performance increase will be more substantial for larger targets.


so all these changes mean is a cruise missle will hit a bs harder if it is sitting still. but if it moves the ages old problem that was created during the speed nerf still remains, they cant hit anything that is smaller than a bs or moving.

awesome buff for mission runners

by my math, this means each missile will do 291 damage rather than 253 and thats worst case scenario; an AB tempest with no sig increase from a shield tank and no speed decrease from an armor tank.

seriously though, who runs an AB on a battleship?

TL;DR
unless the battleship is LOLz afterburning and not MWDing your cruise missiles will do full damage.


not sure what missiles you using for these numbers. but cn missiles have a base of 345, fury 420, precision 300.
granted its been a good year since I sat in or even looked at a raven with out thinking its gonna die fast, so please go slowly for me.

I was using an AB pest with no tank as a worst case scenario; if worst comes to worst, you still do half damage to the smallest fastest AB battleship as you laugh at them because they actually fit an AB to a battleship . . .

In basically every other case, your missiles hit for full effect against all battleships.