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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1861 - 2013-04-15 22:00:16 UTC
Suicide Smith wrote:
The more and more I think of the Domi, the more I like the idea of additional drones. Drop all the drone damage bonus, drop all the hardpoints except for one turret ( maybe a launcher too ) just to draw aggro, leave the rest of the highs as utility.

Then either drive them a Drone per level ( and the bandwidth to use it ), or another idea would be to let them fit the same mod Carriers use for additional drones/fighters ( this would be ideal if turret points remained, then you'd need to choice between more drones or turrets.. not or on the flipside, more drones, less drone control range).

Other than how awesome 10 Sentries or Heavies would be, I think it would really added an interesting element to both PvE and PvP tatics.. 5 sentries and 5 EWAR from one ship ?
The old issue of server load is, I think, for the most part behind us. If it is an issue, then that's what TiDi is for. It would also give the Gallente who are the "Drone" empire, a truly unique droneboat that isn't similarly matched by another race. Same way the Caldari have their own unique BS, the EWAR Scorpion. It would also give me a reason to use it, at the moment if I want a droneboat I'll get in a Gila or Rattlesnake.. I see no benefit to the Domi at all really. I mean it's not BAD, but it's not unique or special enough to make me want to use it yet.

Just some thoughts..
I think a lot of people would be on board with this idea, except those bittervets who experienced the server lag woes in 2005. Seriously, 2005 is when it was changed.

Having a single ship that can fit the Drone Control Units (via role bonus) and changing the +optimal range bonus to perhaps a range increase for RR would make for some interesting fits. You could RR your sentries or a spider tanked BS fleet again. Sounds like fun gameplay to me.

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Drunken Bum
#1862 - 2013-04-15 23:18:34 UTC
I just dont see the bonuses on the domi making me want to take it over almost any other drone boat in the game. If its gonna focus solely on drones, it needs to bring more to the table then that. As it is, I'm gonna miss you upside down sneaker.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie

Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1863 - 2013-04-15 23:58:11 UTC
Seriously think people are underestimating the strength of the Domi's drone bonus.

I understand the concerns between the Domi and the Geddon with similar tank and DPS but the Domi's DPS projection is on another level. If there is a fix for sentries coming then with 150k EHP and being able to swap from brawling to sniping in an instant it will be a serious fleet contender.

The turret DPS loss is not a huge deal considering the all round buffs it is getting. There is a argument the Geddon still has too high a fittings and it should really need to make sacrifices to fit many heavy neuts.
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1864 - 2013-04-16 00:53:18 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Having a single ship that can fit the Drone Control Units (via role bonus) and changing the +optimal range bonus to perhaps a range increase for RR would make for some interesting fits. You could RR your sentries or a spider tanked BS fleet again. Sounds like fun gameplay to me.

I wouldn't even do RR.. I mean I KNOW the PvP fleets would love it, and so would PvE repping their sentries.. but still, that would make the ship a little too unique, being extra drones AND a Logi BS..

Hell, one drone per level ( or can fit One Drone Control Unit per level ), along with tracking, and there's it's two bonus.. call it a day :)

I don't think it would be Overpowered. I don't think it would cause a huge lag, no more so than you already get in massive fleet fights.. And as I said, I think it would give the Gallente that one unique ship they need, that holds true to their empires traditions.

I would love to hear CCP Rise's input on the idea.. even if it doesn't happen it would be nice to know what CCP's thoughts are on it..
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1865 - 2013-04-16 02:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
Suicide Smith wrote:


Hell, one drone per level ( or can fit One Drone Control Unit per level ), along with tracking, and there's it's two bonus.. call it a day :)

I don't think it would be Overpowered. I don't think it would cause a huge lag, no more so than you already get in massive fleet fights.. And as I said, I think it would give the Gallente that one unique ship they need, that holds true to their empires traditions.

I would love to hear CCP Rise's input on the idea.. even if it doesn't happen it would be nice to know what CCP's thoughts are on it..


For any additional bonus to bandwidth, +hp/level would be more appropriate... or perhaps +drone bay size/level like the Eos. It's already a little bit like whack-a-mole even with 5 drones to get one back in the bay before it croaks with the number of times they are targeted nowadays.

Tracking, while nice for just sentries, would feel underused considering the ability to switch up to smaller drones and the likely increase in use of logi and ewar drones with this bonus

[Edit] note that without more drone bay you wouldn't be able to hold even 2 full sets of heavies at max level.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1866 - 2013-04-16 02:13:34 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:

Having a single ship that can fit the Drone Control Units (via role bonus) and changing the +optimal range bonus to perhaps a range increase for RR would make for some interesting fits. You could RR your sentries or a spider tanked BS fleet again. Sounds like fun gameplay to me.

A DCU costs about 100m and could make using the Dominix quite expensive even for just missions. As far as a RR Dominix goes I have been is support of that since even before the BS rebalance thread opened.
Drunken Bum wrote:

I just don't see the bonuses on the domi making me want to take it over almost any other drone boat in the game. If its gonna focus solely on drones, it needs to bring more to the table then that.

This Exactly.
Alticus C Bear wrote:

I understand the concerns between the Domi and the Geddon with similar tank and DPS but the Domi's DPS projection is on another level. If there is a fix for sentries coming then with 150k EHP and being able to swap from brawling to sniping in an instant it will be a serious fleet contender.

While fixing sentry drones would help, it still will not put the Dominix on a competitive level with the Armageddon as it will be able to recall the drones also making it on equal to better grounds than the Dominix.
Suicide Smith wrote:

I wouldn't even do RR.. I mean I KNOW the PvP fleets would love it, and so would PvE repping their sentries.. but still, that would make the ship a little too unique, being extra drones AND a Logi BS..

As far a Unique BSes go, the Scorpion is the only E-War BS, the Armageddon is the only T1 Neutralizer BS, I don't see a problem making the Dominix the only RR Dominix, and to place it on similar grounds as the Armageddon the second bonus could be +70% to the range of Remote Armor (and possibly shield) Repair Systems per level. Putting a T2 Large RR at equal distance as a T2 Heavy Energy Neutralizer.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1867 - 2013-04-16 03:22:22 UTC
I got a chance to plug the domi into eft and tbh I think its lacking a bit on ehp. I would absolutely love to use this as a fleet ship but I just don't think it has the tank to allow it without some serious modifications that really hurt it. Would it be possible to get an additional buff to its base armor or an extra low slot please? I feel that this would be a great final modification for the domi.

I really like that you revisited the mega, because the old shield idea was just bad. Thanks!

The hyperion looks interesting with the midslots in proper balance and I also really look forward to the new and revised eft for that ship with actual potential for neuts/smartbombs. Hopefully it will be a very cool solo boat or possibly even a fleet ship.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1868 - 2013-04-16 10:38:21 UTC
Of course, if they were to do a full rebalance of drones then the domi optimal bonus might become something good for non-sentries also.

How about they give drones different optimals? (and adjusting activation range ond other stats as needed). Currently all the heavies have 1000m. Chnage this so that they cover a range from say 4000m to 5500m (at 500m increments according to race; gallente closest then minmatar, caldari, amarr perhaps). This gives the different racial drones different combat characteristics and begins to place them towards the edge of smartbomb ranges assuming an orbit at optimal. The domi bonus at level 5 then offers a larger orbit and even better protection against smartbombs. (50% bonus would give orbits of 6000m to 8250m)

Of course this might also improve hit characteristics from drones with the increased range reducing angular velocity and on the flip side possibly making them easier to shoot (which still offers some counter to movement outside smartbomb ranges).

Adjust the stats accordingly for medium and light drones and this could well keep the domi unique and competitive with the Armageddon's new layout and bonuses.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1869 - 2013-04-16 11:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
Nikuno wrote:
Of course, if they were to do a full rebalance of drones then the domi optimal bonus might become something good for non-sentries also.

How about they give drones different optimals? (and adjusting activation range ond other stats as needed). Currently all the heavies have 1000m. Chnage this so that they cover a range from say 4000m to 5500m (at 500m increments according to race; gallente closest then minmatar, caldari, amarr perhaps). This gives the different racial drones different combat characteristics and begins to place them towards the edge of smartbomb ranges assuming an orbit at optimal. The domi bonus at level 5 then offers a larger orbit and even better protection against smartbombs. (50% bonus would give orbits of 6000m to 8250m)

Of course this might also improve hit characteristics from drones with the increased range reducing angular velocity and on the flip side possibly making them easier to shoot (which still offers some counter to movement outside smartbomb ranges).

Adjust the stats accordingly for medium and light drones and this could well keep the domi unique and competitive with the Armageddon's new layout and bonuses.


a drone falloff skill would help aswell but they need to sort out drone tracking, sig radius and higher orbit velocity amongst other things.
Also their sig res

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1870 - 2013-04-16 14:02:44 UTC
I would have gave the Megathron a chance, but IMO the beam + cruise rebalance just killed it for good now. There is absolutely no point for not ranged bonused railguns as a dps weapon now. Infact, the only survival railguns will be those of the Naga, with range + dmg bonus.

Problem is, at close range, tachyon are better than railguns at the cost of using more cap, and cruise missiles are now a LOT better than railguns at long range at the cost of flight time.

RIP fleet Megathron ?
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1871 - 2013-04-16 14:08:03 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I would have gave the Megathron a chance, but IMO the beam + cruise rebalance just killed it for good now. There is absolutely no point for not ranged bonused railguns as a dps weapon now. Infact, the only survival railguns will be those of the Naga, with range + dmg bonus.

Problem is, at close range, tachyon are better than railguns at the cost of using more cap, and cruise missiles are now a LOT better than railguns at long range at the cost of flight time.

RIP fleet Megathron ?


RIP Megathron, in general. Auto-quote.

Phoenix Torp wrote:
They have converted Gallente in the lost cause. The most powerful weapons, at the cost of the more range-dependant. You "decide" they have to be armor-tanked (and don't say now about being shield-tanked as only incursion fittings do that) and the armor tank destroy your velocity. You think in put a lot of LAR's (and the rigs that rise up the active armor tank, as they don't slow down your ship) to try to compensante this and you see you even need "¡¡¡A CAP BOOSTER!!!" (even with lvl5 skills) for only keep your systems going. And that in the case you aren't against a smaller & faster ship than you to switch on your MWD and forget about your cap. And then the Amarr have cap problems for the lasers... kind of ridiculous. You try to follow the philosophy of Gallente to be an effectively damage applier (¡¡¡DON'T SLOW DOWN YOUR SHIP SO YOU WON'T USE ALMOST MWD!!!) and you get 75K EHP that even an Sleipnir destroys your Mega (real situation some hours ago).

At least, with Amarr, you know that you need to be far of your objective. That doesn't hurt your damage as the tracking is fine when you are far. Gallente is the land of the contradictions. We should request for a SP permutation. I'm tired of trying to win combats in a Gallente boat (and BTW the only BS i can't fit is Amarr).

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp

William R Blake
We Did A Thing
Probably Up to No Good
#1872 - 2013-04-16 15:28:52 UTC
meh , i just hope CCP can sort out Gallente Ships PROPERLY.

On a second note, still waiting news/feedback/bump any kind of replies from CCP about this.
Tom Guhl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1873 - 2013-04-16 18:54:03 UTC
Tierere wrote:
Attention Well if the domi is going to be truly thought of as the dedicated drone boat, and is loosing its hybrid bonus and dps how about enabling it to fit one or more 'Drone Control Units' that would make me happy.

Yes, giving it a special ability to fit DCUs* would be fitting for the "dedicated drone boat", instead of making it a "sentry drone boat". Or, like I and others have said, give it more across-the-board drone bonuses.

*Someone rightly pointed out that the DCUs' cost is inappropriate for putting 5 of them on a T1 BS. Not sure what would be done about this. Maybe something crazy like "Dominix gets +1 drone in space per fitted Drone Link Augmentor" (instead of DCU)?

P.S. If sentries are supposed to be made more viable for PVP in an upcoming change, wait for that change to be implemented before you do this to the Domi. Otherwise it's going to be "yeah it's broken but only till we implement these changes in 2 or 3 years"

P.P.S. Overall, I just feel, as do many others, that Gallente ships' "specialness" where drones are concerned is being stripped away and with nothing in return to compenate, at least at the Battleship level. I mean fucksake, what kind of self-respecting Gallente BS can't even field 5 heavies?! WTH, CCPUgh
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1874 - 2013-04-16 21:15:11 UTC
CCP Rise
Hyperion and megathron need more cap... there cap isnt much better than a raven or minnie ships which ofc dont need so much cap.
Mega - blasters/mwd
Hyperion - blasters/mwd - armour reps

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1875 - 2013-04-16 21:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
CCP Rise
i disagree that with the mega you first posted meant too much overlap with the Hyperion because the Hype is a active tanker with low tracking and less mobile.
A shield mega would be very mobile with strong tracking where as now its very similar to its navy version but without the hefty tank to match and is too slow for the shortest range battleship.
I thought it would be more like a big thorax having versatility and options instead of being pigeon holed into killing its speed.

P.S. seriously why does the Navy brutix have virtually the same tank?... its plainly wrong..... these battleships need more tank they don't scale like the rest of the classes have..... a rethink is needed here.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Rysis Vyvorant
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#1876 - 2013-04-16 22:30:03 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
I would have gave the Megathron a chance, but IMO the beam + cruise rebalance just killed it for good now. There is absolutely no point for not ranged bonused railguns as a dps weapon now. Infact, the only survival railguns will be those of the Naga, with range + dmg bonus.

Problem is, at close range, tachyon are better than railguns at the cost of using more cap, and cruise missiles are now a LOT better than railguns at long range at the cost of flight time.

RIP fleet Megathron ?


I personally see this the end of Gallente BS boats. Too many broken mechanics waiting to be fixed and no planned fix in sight.

I really really hate the fact I have trained Gal BS 5 now - what a complete waste.

CCP Rise. Do not ******* touch the Navy Domi.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#1877 - 2013-04-16 23:04:52 UTC
megathron change looks like... reasonable... while i dont really see the need for a change there in the first place. a bit more tank on it certainly is nice. think all bs should in generall have a pretty bad ass buffer tank comes pvp. i mean they are the biggest conventional ships.

off topic: once you are done with the t1 bs could you just go back to the t1 cruisers and remove the OP on them. so there actually is a point again to fly t2 cruisers over t1. cheers.
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1878 - 2013-04-16 23:26:27 UTC
Galmas wrote:
megathron change looks like... reasonable... while i dont really see the need for a change there in the first place. a bit more tank on it certainly is nice. think all bs should in generall have a pretty bad ass buffer tank comes pvp. i mean they are the biggest conventional ships.

off topic: once you are done with the t1 bs could you just go back to the t1 cruisers and remove the OP on them. so there actually is a point again to fly t2 cruisers over t1. cheers.

Your T2's will likely get a little better once they actually re-balance the T2's.. For now T1's aren't OP, they just aren't as bad as they used to be lol
Hoinus
Duty Free Exchange
#1879 - 2013-04-17 03:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoinus
So what's the new BS 5 to train for, now that Gallente BSes are dead?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1880 - 2013-04-17 08:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Hoinus wrote:
So what's the new BS 5 to train for, now that Gallente BSes are dead?


What do you mean?

Funnily enough, unless you prefer null blobs, Gallente BS V is still the best one. It's not going to be as clear cut winner after the skill tree change (you won't need it for the Moros anymore), but the lineup still has the most versatile BS (Domi), the new king of small gang (Hype) and Mega as viable as it's been so far, just different. Possibly inproved damage application and higher overheated dps.

If you fancy PVE, sentry Domi will project damage far better than pirate battleships.

And you want Gallente BS for Vindi and Mach, crosstraining Minnie and Gal continues to be a winning choice for anything EVE throws at you.

.