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Moving All Level 4 Agents to Low-Sec

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2013-04-15 21:39:56 UTC
OP...

To what end?


Why do you want L4 missions moved to low sec?

If the answer is, becuase you want massive deflation as the ISK flow into game takes a MASSIVE hit as people simply stop running L4 missions, well.. okay. I disagree, but at least your desired outcome is based in reality.

If the answer to that is, that you want people to go out to low sec in PVE ships to run L4s, so that you can hunt and kill them, then you are clueless as to the mindset of the player that is running L4s in high sec.


Move L4s to low sec, people stop running L4s. There will NOT be any more people in low sec, in PVE ships, running L4 missions.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#182 - 2013-04-15 22:13:59 UTC
Is it just me or did everyone forget ...

WE ALREADY TRIED THIS!?!!!!

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#183 - 2013-04-16 00:40:40 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
I never said they did. However these people ***** and moan when they are killed because they expect their precious CONCORD to protect them. It's like guards in Stormwind only in space (see how I made that easier for you to relate to?)

The point is these people have become too comfortable. And judging from the outcries in this thread any sort of risk or danger is seen as an affront to your precious afk game play. Why don't you learn the mechanics? Why don't you outsmart gankers? it's not hard to do.

All it is is laziness in my eyes.

You know what? I see more anti-carebears ***** and whine than I see carebears do it. And in case we forget, the outcry on this very thread, if you haven't noticed, is to have the game mechanics changed in favor of the ganker over the mission runner. And there are a couple of other whine threads on the very first page of GD asking for game mechanics to be changed to suit gankers over carebears.

This notion that "carebears" are whiners while deliberately ignoring the fact that gankers tend to be just as whiny (or worse) seriously needs to stop. I would suggest you follow your own advice and stop asking CCP to change the game mechanics to suit you and find ways to lure and gank your soft targets.



What are you smoking? I never suggested mechanics be changed to favor gankers so DON'T make asshat comments without first reading and digesting the information given to you. I suggested changing pve content in low sec to favor more traffic and a reason to bring people back to these regions besides pvp.


See bold above. You tell me to "go learn the game mechanics" (insinuating I don't already) and I tell you to stop bitching and whining and go play the game. Again, follow your own advice.



Follow my own advise? I don't live in high sec yet I know it's mechanics and how to exploit them. I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll
Igor Slovensky
Doomheim
#184 - 2013-04-16 01:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Igor Slovensky
People are going to play eve the style they choose. Changing the location of lvl 4 agents will only result in those people wishing to avoid low or null sec to adjust their game accordingly. They will continue to avoid low and null sec space, and find other ways to gain isk in high sec.

It should also be noted that not all lvl 4 mission grinding is done for isk. Alot of industry skills are dependent on faction and npc corporation standings. Many players grind lvl 4's for standings to enable anchoring of pos's to research BPO's in order to build and fit all the shiney ships in the game and to gain perfect refining and build skills at npc stations.


If you wish to discourage isk making in high sec space, do what others have done. Gank in high sec and pay the price without crying about it.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2013-04-16 13:20:32 UTC
Tara Read wrote:

I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll


Doing those things is not the problem.

The problem is that if we go to low sec to run a mission, someone (or group) will show up to hunt us, forcing us to jump safe to safe for 5 minutes waiting for the aggression timer to go away so we can log off safely, waiting for the hunter to get bored and move on, so we can come back.

All that "down time" from guns on red + DESTROIES the profitability. Move L4s to low sec, and you simply reduce the profitability of L4s to less than that of L3s in high sec without all the down time.


Null has the same problem. Sure, if local is blue, Null can be more profitable than high sec. Unfortunately, one cloaky camper, and the system is totally shut down. If I spend 75% of my time logged off, docked up, or sitting in the POS shield because of a single cloaky camper... well... there is nothing you can do to "balance" of high sec vs. null sec profit that makes null profitable enough to compensate for the fact that one cloaky camper can shut down an entire solar system.


Rock, Paper, Scissors works as a game because for every strategy, there is a counter. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuke Bomb... not so effective as a game. Cloaky camper = nuke bomb. There is no strategy to counter it, other than to not play when a cloaky camper show up.... or, as I've done... just move back to high sec.
Reachok
Cydaen Awareness
#186 - 2013-04-16 13:36:45 UTC
Mei Sui wrote:
Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec.

One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation.

Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills.

While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec)

There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer.

Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away! P



I didn't even bother reading the other posts. I'll even assume you're not just a bored person sitting in your cubicle somewhere just trolling for laughs.

You are wrong.

The vast majority of subscribers reside in high sec. Anything that pushes otherwise (mostly) happy subscribers into doing something that they do not want to do will result in those subscribers letting their accounts lapse.

Say what you want, give us all the reasons that you can dream up, this game IS a business. And high sec is the cash cow.

Some of you won't be happy until the cow is dead.

The bad guys went the other way, seriously....
Reachok
Cydaen Awareness
#187 - 2013-04-16 13:39:12 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

I was merely stating that HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll


Doing those things is not the problem.

The problem is that if we go to low sec to run a mission, someone (or group) will show up to hunt us, forcing us to jump safe to safe for 5 minutes waiting for the aggression timer to go away so we can log off safely, waiting for the hunter to get bored and move on, so we can come back.

All that "down time" from guns on red + DESTROIES the profitability. Move L4s to low sec, and you simply reduce the profitability of L4s to less than that of L3s in high sec without all the down time.


Null has the same problem. Sure, if local is blue, Null can be more profitable than high sec. Unfortunately, one cloaky camper, and the system is totally shut down. If I spend 75% of my time logged off, docked up, or sitting in the POS shield because of a single cloaky camper... well... there is nothing you can do to "balance" of high sec vs. null sec profit that makes null profitable enough to compensate for the fact that one cloaky camper can shut down an entire solar system.


Rock, Paper, Scissors works as a game because for every strategy, there is a counter. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuke Bomb... not so effective as a game. Cloaky camper = nuke bomb. There is no strategy to counter it, other than to not play when a cloaky camper show up.... or, as I've done... just move back to high sec.




QFT!! This guy understands!!

The bad guys went the other way, seriously....
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#188 - 2013-04-16 14:00:01 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions.

This is what makes the idea so awesome.

translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too Cool

It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec.


First where is your source and where are your numbers?

What is sad is people come on the forums run their pie holes and have no idea what they have said.

If you honestly can say that null missions on upgraded sites makes less then lvl 4 missions then A. you have never done either lvl 4 missions or B. Never done upgraded null missions correctly or c. done neither. If your corp doesnt have the ability to keep the sites upgraded in null then maybe you should move back to hi-sec

To top it all off lvl 4 mission running and running missions in the blue doughnut are almost if not equal risk. If anything Null provides better safety from Intel and assumption all newts are there to kill you. I know because I do both. I run lvl 4 on another account when not able to in null.

Its easy to say something is better then the other when your not doing both.
Fatbear
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2013-04-16 14:03:40 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Posting in another "we killed everything that moved in lowsec for no reason and now there's no more targets" thread.



What this man said. I'm a lowsec dweller too these days.

Removing L4s from highsec isn't the answer. Increasing the rewards of lowsec parallel to the risk is the answer. You've got L4s in high, and L4s in low; right now the difference in payout is minimal. Increase the benefits of moving into unsafe space, rather than penalising players for wanting to stay secure and you'll see more traffic.

As it stands though, with the number of pirate corps/alliances that sit on gates 24/7, we've (notice that, I said we, I'm a piwat too) over-culled our foodchain.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2013-04-16 14:45:54 UTC
The OP idea is obviously stupid. But somethign COULD be done to have more poeple in low sec. The same thing was made in FW.. make missiosn taht are FAST to complete and give good isk in low sec.


Special missions that can be completed within 5-10 minutes with a larger payout (around 70-100m/isk per hour) would draw a lot of people . Specially if they can be completed with smaller ship than battleships ( HAcs for example)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#191 - 2013-04-16 15:36:49 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The OP idea is obviously stupid. But somethign COULD be done to have more poeple in low sec. The same thing was made in FW.. make missiosn taht are FAST to complete and give good isk in low sec.


Special missions that can be completed within 5-10 minutes with a larger payout (around 70-100m/isk per hour) would draw a lot of people . Specially if they can be completed with smaller ship than battleships ( HAcs for example)


FW style missions in low-sec is a great idea. Fast, dangerous and doable in something smaller than a battleship.

_ _
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2013-04-16 15:51:44 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

It's when they insist the opinion is truth simply by stating it, or putting it in print that the problem arises. Like the Louisiana school textbooks that state men and dinosaurs walked together. Oh yes indeed. Problems.


Louisiana is a myth, a state like that couldn't possibly exist.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Josef Djugashvilis
#193 - 2013-04-16 16:01:03 UTC
This is a gas thread, an old worn and tired gas thread at that.

This is not a signature.
bufnitza calatoare
#194 - 2013-04-16 16:21:49 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions.

This is what makes the idea so awesome.

translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too Cool

It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec.



I used to do lvl 4 missions in high sec. make anywhere from 1-3b isk a week and nearly doubled that once I started farming enemies abound with 6 chars .

then the tag market crashed and I went to null some 9 months ago.. and was making 1-4b isk on a great day normally it became 300m a day.
also did something that high sec aint done for me in years. made new friends.. friends I would give the last of my isk to and have done, people who made the game enjoyable again.

so basically.. moving to null/low sec is a life style choice.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#195 - 2013-04-16 16:46:02 UTC
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
so basically.. moving to null/low sec is a life style choice.

I noticed a few months ago that the bounties I can earn running random anoms in low-sec are roughly equal to those one can earn doing L4s in high-sec. This assumes that I find a quiet system or two where I can spam anoms to my heart's content without interruption. However, L4s in high-sec also have mission rewards and can be salvaged in virtually complete safety, whereas running anoms carries a very real risk.

Your statement probably holds true for null-sec, but low-sec gets the shaft for any sort of grind income.

Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:
To top it all off lvl 4 mission running and running missions in the blue doughnut are almost if not equal risk.

You are correct. Running missions in sov-null incurs exactly zero risk.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2013-04-16 17:06:11 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll

you missed one important part:

5. abandoning accepted mission because local pirates made it so you have no chance to finish it

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
bufnitza calatoare
#197 - 2013-04-16 17:09:11 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll

you missed one important part:

5. abandoning accepted mission because local pirates made it so you have no chance to finish it



youmissed out on, don't need to if you are said pirates.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2013-04-16 17:44:55 UTC
bufnitza calatoare wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
HS dwellers NEED to learn very basic elementary mechanics such as:

1. watching local.

2. turning on active hardeners etc. Gankers scan ships so if they see a well defended target likely they will pass it up and go for another.

3. being pre aligned to a celestial or station.

4. use D scan.

These are very basic yet powerful tools a player can use to protect themselves. However you can't do that if you are afk.... Roll

you missed one important part:

5. abandoning accepted mission because local pirates made it so you have no chance to finish it



youmissed out on, don't need to if you are said pirates.

said pirates are already in low-sec.

and we are speaking here about high-sec dwellers who will need to do this rather often than seldom

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Aston Martin DB5
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#199 - 2013-04-16 18:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Martin DB5
NO! So put that in your juice box and suck it.

Why you ask, because I'm drinking on Kool-aid, what come at me!Cool
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#200 - 2013-04-16 19:04:40 UTC
My opinion of what needs to happen for missions HERE.