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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Damion Rayne
Panoptic
#601 - 2011-11-01 04:33:18 UTC
mkint wrote:
You know, if all you barbie rookies were to post in the same threads rather than make a 1-off post in a 1-off thread, you'd look more like an involved part of EVE that has some understanding about the realities of EVE and it's future. All these anti-WIS posters could be completely outnumbered by the barbie-ites, but it won't look that way because the barbie-ites never post in eachothers' threads. All the thread is 1 pro barbie, and dozens of anti-barbie. And over and over and over, because you people spam the same goddamned thread over and over again.


Barbie? That's all you can think of? That's your amazing counter argument and come back? Please...

Grow a brain and look at the "Future" of Eve Online, which is more than just walking in stations, it always has been and always will be. It is supposed to be the Ultimate Science Fiction Simulator and that includes more then just space ships you child. Grow up and have a set of eyes and a brain to see outside the box. Also you'd notice almost 100 likes for the OP, and barely any of those people actually posting. You know why? People like you, close minded space bullies who are capable of doing nothing but bashing, name calling, and generally making fun of people and than calling all that an "Argument".

Go away.

ROA
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#602 - 2011-11-01 04:45:34 UTC
Damion Rayne wrote:
mkint wrote:
You know, if all you barbie rookies were to post in the same threads rather than make a 1-off post in a 1-off thread, you'd look more like an involved part of EVE that has some understanding about the realities of EVE and it's future. All these anti-WIS posters could be completely outnumbered by the barbie-ites, but it won't look that way because the barbie-ites never post in eachothers' threads. All the thread is 1 pro barbie, and dozens of anti-barbie. And over and over and over, because you people spam the same goddamned thread over and over again.


Barbie? That's all you can think of? That's your amazing counter argument and come back? Please...

Grow a brain and look at the "Future" of Eve Online, which is more than just walking in stations, it always has been and always will be. It is supposed to be the Ultimate Science Fiction Simulator and that includes more then just space ships you child. Grow up and have a set of eyes and a brain to see outside the box. Also you'd notice almost 100 likes for the OP, and barely any of those people actually posting. You know why? People like you, close minded space bullies who are capable of doing nothing but bashing, name calling, and generally making fun of people and than calling all that an "Argument".

Go away.

You probably should have read the post you responded to before raging about it.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Stella SGP
#603 - 2011-11-01 05:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
Valkris Arkayne wrote:
No one that supports WiS is talking about 'sitting in bars'. That's overly simplistic and purposely obtuse.

WiS supporters see that EVE has not changed significantly in 8 years. We also note that subscriptions have capped out at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE. Without bringing in fresh blood, the only way things can go for EVE is a slow and gradual decline... and that fresh blood has to be from a different pool of players (since PVPers have already tried EVE, or aren't interested in spaceship pew pew).

Whether players want to admit it or not, EVE *must* expand or it will die a slow, lingering death. Every online game is competing for player loyalty by offering more and more features - EVE has to do the same in order to remain compeditive.

As for potential 'content', WiS promised to offer features beyond mining, ratting, and wardeccing. War Rooms with holographic displays of local sectors, Player-run shops and additional crafting that offered hundreds of new blueprints and manufacturing options, an expanded economy, mini-games, and numerous other ideas. This IS content.

Updated nebulae, 4 new ships, and engine trails hardly qualify as content.

To my understanding, from what I've seen and read about WiS all this time, I agree with you that this was exactly what CCP was trying to push for with WiS. Horizontal expansion of the game. In fact, they actually said so themselves that that was their intentions.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#604 - 2011-11-01 05:43:30 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:
[quote=Valkris Arkayne]No one that supports WiS is talking about 'sitting in bars'. That's overly simplistic and purposely obtuse.

WiS supporters see that EVE has not changed significantly in 8 years. We also note that subscriptions have capped out at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE. Without bringing in fresh blood, the only way things can go for EVE is a slow and gradual decline... and that fresh blood has to be from a different pool of players (since PVPers have already tried EVE, or aren't interested in spaceship pew pew).
.


I just want to say that I'm a new player and I'm here because of the grim reality of EVE.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
mkint
#605 - 2011-11-01 05:58:35 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Damion Rayne wrote:
mkint wrote:
You know, if all you barbie rookies were to post in the same threads rather than make a 1-off post in a 1-off thread, you'd look more like an involved part of EVE that has some understanding about the realities of EVE and it's future. All these anti-WIS posters could be completely outnumbered by the barbie-ites, but it won't look that way because the barbie-ites never post in eachothers' threads. All the thread is 1 pro barbie, and dozens of anti-barbie. And over and over and over, because you people spam the same goddamned thread over and over again.


Barbie? That's all you can think of? That's your amazing counter argument and come back? Please...

Grow a brain and look at the "Future" of Eve Online, which is more than just walking in stations, it always has been and always will be. It is supposed to be the Ultimate Science Fiction Simulator and that includes more then just space ships you child. Grow up and have a set of eyes and a brain to see outside the box. Also you'd notice almost 100 likes for the OP, and barely any of those people actually posting. You know why? People like you, close minded space bullies who are capable of doing nothing but bashing, name calling, and generally making fun of people and than calling all that an "Argument".

Go away.

You probably should have read the post you responded to before raging about it.

I suppose it should be worth noting that at the time of my post there were like 30 threads in GD (quite likely all started by alts from the same dude) about CCP refocusing away from WiS. Fortunately most of the discussion has finally coalesced into a single place, which is useful.

However, there are still the "nuh-uh"ers on both sides, and some flat out stupid people. However, the debate isn't really WIS/no-WIS, it's whether or not it should be done Right Now.

And no. It should NOT be done Right Now. That would accelerate the failscade that CCP desperately needs to reverse. Only people who don't see that are rookies who joined a game for a feature that DOES NOT EXIST.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Naso Gomez
#606 - 2011-11-01 06:01:22 UTC
I want walking in stations, the idea seems cool and CCP has worked hard on it, they just need to work on that... micro-transaction part.

Plus, it would have been a waste of 5 years developing / advertisement it if it doesn't come out and that makes me even sadder.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#607 - 2011-11-01 06:02:36 UTC
Incarna and Dust514 are full of promises (I still mourn Planetside daily).
In the end, if CCP pulls through, we'll have the most complete and interactive sci-fi game universe ever. What they're trying to do is nothing short of revolutionary.

It just so happens that they lack the resources to focus on everything at once. Right now, Eve(FIS) is paying the bills, so it only makes sense to focus on Eve(FIS).

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#608 - 2011-11-01 06:54:27 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Incarna and Dust514 are full of promises (I still mourn Planetside daily).
In the end, if CCP pulls through, we'll have the most complete and interactive sci-fi game universe ever. What they're trying to do is nothing short of revolutionary.

It just so happens that they lack the resources to focus on everything at once. Right now, Eve(FIS) is paying the bills, so it only makes sense to focus on Eve(FIS).


Brilliantly put

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Jita Alt666
#609 - 2011-11-01 06:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Alt666
Valkris Arkayne wrote:
ConranAntoni wrote:
...How exactly does creating a bar where your avatar can sit in type in local about shitfit canes count as actual content? ...


No one that supports WiS is talking about 'sitting in bars'. That's overly simplistic and purposely obtuse.

WiS supporters see that EVE has not changed significantly in 8 years. We also note that subscriptions have capped out at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE. Without bringing in fresh blood, the only way things can go for EVE is a slow and gradual decline... and that fresh blood has to be from a different pool of players (since PVPers have already tried EVE, or aren't interested in spaceship pew pew).

Whether players want to admit it or not, EVE *must* expand or it will die a slow, lingering death. Every online game is competing for player loyalty by offering more and more features - EVE has to do the same in order to remain compeditive.

As for potential 'content', WiS promised to offer features beyond mining, ratting, and wardeccing. War Rooms with holographic displays of local sectors, Player-run shops and additional crafting that offered hundreds of new blueprints and manufacturing options, an expanded economy, mini-games, and numerous other ideas. This IS content.

Updated nebulae, 4 new ships, and engine trails hardly qualify as content.


Again I support WIS development. Again I can not tolerate poorly constructed arguments.
1. Several of the pro WIS posts in this very thread talk about being in a room together as added value. I agree in that to limit WIS to that is being obtuse. To say no one that supports WIS is citing that as added value is incorrect.

2. Eve Subscriptions capped out at the same time CCP said they put FIS on the back burner for 18 months and pour their resources into Incarna. This is not coincidence. To argue they have capped out because Eve FIS has reached its inevitable conclusion is incorrect.

Eve will always be a niche game. For WIS to work it needs to have elements that are not found in other games and are compelling to the current player base as well as potential new customers. This is achievable.

Krios Ahzek, you make a very valid point:
Quote:
Incarna and Dust514 are full of promises (I still mourn Planetside daily).
In the end, if CCP pulls through, we'll have the most complete and interactive sci-fi game universe ever. What they're trying to do is nothing short of revolutionary.

It just so happens that they lack the resources to focus on everything at once. Right now, Eve(FIS) is paying the bills, so it only makes sense to focus on Eve(FIS).
Stella SGP
#610 - 2011-11-01 07:04:04 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
[quote=Valkris Arkayne]No one that supports WiS is talking about 'sitting in bars'. That's overly simplistic and purposely obtuse.

WiS supporters see that EVE has not changed significantly in 8 years. We also note that subscriptions have capped out at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE. Without bringing in fresh blood, the only way things can go for EVE is a slow and gradual decline... and that fresh blood has to be from a different pool of players (since PVPers have already tried EVE, or aren't interested in spaceship pew pew).
.


I just want to say that I'm a new player and I'm here because of the grim reality of EVE.

Nice to see new players, but as Valkris has stated, there are not enough of 'you'.

"at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE."
Jita Alt666
#611 - 2011-11-01 07:08:09 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:

Nice to see new players, but as Valkris has stated, there are not enough of 'you'.

"at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE."


Saying it lots does not make it any more true:

Quote:
Eve Subscriptions capped out at the same time CCP said they would put FIS on the back burner for 18 months and pour their resources into Incarna. This is not coincidence. To argue they have capped out because Eve FIS has reached its inevitable conclusion is incorrect.
Deliceous
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#612 - 2011-11-01 07:11:32 UTC
I am for WIS. Joined the game in 2007 thinking I was joining Earth and Beyond, and was wondering where the WIS went..

not until 2009 I joined a different game that I remembered, But in 2008 showed some awsome WIS stuff. Ambulation.

I hope some comes out slowly. keeping it optional for vets, Manditory for 1st timers who can later turn it off.

I see some good growth in the player base which will mean more people to shoot at.

Easier targets that are not too concerned about Space ship travel so won't be so hardened when they travel.
El Puerco
P.W. Minerals
#613 - 2011-11-01 07:18:24 UTC
i also want to be able to jump and lie down and and crouch and all :P

Errare humanum est.
Stella SGP
#614 - 2011-11-01 07:21:44 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Again I support WIS development. Again I can not tolerate poorly constructed arguments.
1. Several of the pro WIS posts in this very thread talk about being in a room together as added value. I agree in that to limit WIS to that is being obtuse. To say no one that supports WIS is citing that as added value is incorrect.

2. Eve Subscriptions capped out at the same time CCP said they put FIS on the back burner for 18 months and pour their resources into Incarna. This is not coincidence. To argue they have capped out because Eve FIS has reached its inevitable conclusion is incorrect.

Eve will always be a niche game. For WIS to work it needs to have elements that are not found in other games and are compelling to the current player base as well as potential new customers. This is achievable.

WiS is about expanding gameplay options to try and appeal to more types of players. For people who aren't already playing, adding 10 more ships or revamping null isn't going to make them suddenly want to play. Focusing on FiS features would improve player retention, but not bring in the new 'players'. Which is the whole point of WiS and Dust, that is to try and appeal to the demographic that is least likely to try EVE or even heard of EVE.
Stella SGP
#615 - 2011-11-01 07:30:51 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:

Nice to see new players, but as Valkris has stated, there are not enough of 'you'.

"at roughly 400,000 and haven't increased appreciably in the last year. The fact is, EVE has hit maximum density for it's current game design due to it's narrow focus of heavy PVP - only a small percentage of the world's online players have the willpower to handle the grim reality of EVE."


Saying it lots does not make it any more true:

Quote:
Eve Subscriptions capped out at the same time CCP said they would put FIS on the back burner for 18 months and pour their resources into Incarna. This is not coincidence. To argue they have capped out because Eve FIS has reached its inevitable conclusion is incorrect.

Yes, which is why I didn't include the "We also note that subscriptions have capped out" portion of the sentence because I'm not arguing whether or not EVE has capped out, I was only giving my opinion on what CCP is trying to do making WiS or Dust. Sadly many players don't see it that way and only wants CCP to focus on their narrow definition of 'fun'.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#616 - 2011-11-01 08:27:38 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:
Sadly many players don't see it that way and only wants CCP to focus on their narrow definition of 'fun'.

You sound genuinely surprised that people who play an internet spaceship game want internet spaceship content.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Pent'nor
#617 - 2011-11-01 10:24:51 UTC
Stella SGP wrote:
WiS is about expanding gameplay options to try and appeal to more types of players. For people who aren't already playing, adding 10 more ships or revamping null isn't going to make them suddenly want to play. Focusing on FiS features would improve player retention, but not bring in the new 'players'. Which is the whole point of WiS and Dust, that is to try and appeal to the demographic that is least likely to try EVE or even heard of EVE.


Dust may not bring in many fps people to eve online because I think they like a faster pace game, but it will expand the people playing in the eve universe and enrich the fun for both fps and eve online players. Maybe some will join eve online to get a more indepth feeling, but what I find interesting is that when I get bored with fis stuff, then I can move to dust and still be playing in the universe I love. Which maybe exactly what i'll do and end up playing dust more than eve. However heres the point, none of my friends like or will play eve because it is a niche game and they don't like the niche. There is no amount of explaining I can give them that would convince them to play (its just not their style of game). I may be able to get a few to play dust because they are fps'rs. If eve had wis that was full of content and things to do, then I could probably bring in some of my friends that were rpg'rs.

I have no delusions about how long it may take to get an incarna that I could show my friends and have them go "wow thats cool!" It would be a very long process of small incarna releases, but of course never putting incarna as a priority. The eve community are fis players and if the eve universe is to expand its base to different gaming styles, then these fis players should never be ignored or felt neglected. Any development on wis should always be secondary to fis. That statement has been said over and over again, but I have no problem saying it again. Many of the wis people are even willing to wait with no development on it until winter or dust is done. They aren't being hardup and saying put wis first. They just want to know the plan and if one does get put in place, then make it secondary or balanced. If they haven't decided what to do yet, then we are posting to show our support for the incarna concept, don't abandon it. Keep the fis expansions coming as priority one while working on incarna.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#618 - 2011-11-01 10:28:35 UTC
I think instead of Dust and WoD and instead of changing their already aging game they should have focused on creating Eve 2.
Ayumi Hinoki
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#619 - 2011-11-01 11:28:32 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
Sadly many players don't see it that way and only wants CCP to focus on their narrow definition of 'fun'.

You sound genuinely surprised that people who play an internet spaceship game want internet spaceship content.


Is it included in the meaning of internet spaceship content trading, researching and manufacturing, mining, exploration, corporation management or planetary interaction? Because of comments like that, it seems that EVE is only made of and for fighter players.

And you guys don't want to realize that combat is just another little field in this game, popularized, but not the only and the main way to play.

If you want pew-pew content, go to Black Prophecy. This is an Sci-Fi sandbox, which it's totally different.
Daemeon Fyral
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#620 - 2011-11-01 12:23:24 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
I think instead of Dust and WoD and instead of changing their already aging game they should have focused on creating Eve 2.



EVE 2?

What are you looking for? a new game experience... anyone who has played since the start could tell you that you already have that...

How about re-vamped graphics? wait, we got that too...

Well how about a change in mechanics and play style. I don't know about you but the winter expansion to me at least looks like it is going to bring about a MASSIVE change in battle strategy.

If you ask me we already have EVE 2, hell we're probably on EVE 3 by now with all the changes and iterations that CCP has done to the game. only difference is you didn't have to pay a second time for the game and it doesn't have some fancy numeral after the name.