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New geddon
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Kosa Vaz Omaristos
Prosperity and Pride Incorporated
#1 - 2013-04-16 10:19:48 UTC
Just wondering if any of you have thought about this:

With the new geddon layout, would you fit cruise or torp, when the ship i fitted with dual neuts?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#2 - 2013-04-16 10:24:06 UTC
It's too early to say, large missile systems are due for an overhaul but CCP haven't given any indication of what they're going to do with them yet. It also depends on what you're using the ship for.

Oh god.
Herman Klaus
Touched By Klaus
#3 - 2013-04-16 10:40:55 UTC
Why would you use it as anything other than a pure neut boat now? 40km large neuts are gonna insane. With this in your fleet kiters would never be a worry anymore. Just neut them still and melt them. Amarr FOTM is coming and I can't wait!
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-04-16 10:42:04 UTC
Drone snipe + neuts , maybe remote rep we will see.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#5 - 2013-04-16 11:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: StoneCold
Got the Ody-EFT on the other pc, but as far as i remember:

New arma with 5 Torp II + 2 BCU II + 5 heavy drones II got over 1000 DPS and still bringing a more then decent buffer tank (while bringing the 'mandatory' 2 large neuts).

My true stories
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-04-16 11:22:57 UTC
StoneCold wrote:
Got the Ody-EFT on the other pc, but as far as i remember:

New arma with 5 Torp II + 2 BCU II + 5 heavy drones II got over 1000 DPS and still bringing a more then decent buffer tank (while bringing the 'mandatory' 2 large neuts).


That would be torp and heavy drone dps, it's staying in EFT. Just fit neuts and sentries.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#7 - 2013-04-16 11:54:02 UTC
Personally I like the change. It is coming dangerously close too Domi's territory but overall I'm sure we can see some interesting things develop from this.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#8 - 2013-04-16 13:40:55 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
Personally I like the change. It is coming dangerously close too Domi's territory but overall I'm sure we can see some interesting things develop from this.


Yeah, it's very similar to the old neut Domi, only better.

The new Domi is going to be busy carving out a new niche for itself at Scorch'd Apoc-ranges, though. Lol
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-04-16 17:18:49 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
Personally I like the change. It is coming dangerously close too Domi's territory but overall I'm sure we can see some interesting things develop from this.


I don't like the fact that they're removing a perfectly balanced and working boat to bring in this new experiment. If you want to introduce something new and likely unbalancing, just make a new model. Eve doesn't need to lose a perfectly balanced boat for this.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#10 - 2013-04-16 17:39:11 UTC
I plan on flying mine exactly how the old (current) Typhoon was (is) flown, albeit a lot slower. Torps, sexy bonused neuts, drones, and a thick armour tank. Me likey Big smile

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2013-04-16 20:01:48 UTC
Amarr BS 5 in the queue. I can see them kity T3's have a very difficult day. Its about time there was some purpose to T1 BS other than the scorp, which to be honest gets superseded by the falcon in most fleets.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2013-04-16 22:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Kasutra wrote:
Job Valador wrote:
Personally I like the change. It is coming dangerously close too Domi's territory but overall I'm sure we can see some interesting things develop from this.


Yeah, it's very similar to the old neut Domi, only better.

The new Domi is going to be busy failing to carve out a new niche for itself at Scorch'd Apoc-ranges, though. Lol

Fixed.

The Dominix won't be able to compete with a sniper Apoc because they either have to sit still and take full damage (because Sentry Drones don't move) or move and abandon their drones (because Sentry Drones don't move or return to the drone bay at range).

The Dominix also won't be able to compete at close range since the Armageddon can do pretty much everything the Dominix can do... plus extra.

How did you Veterans start?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-04-16 23:42:30 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Job Valador wrote:
Personally I like the change. It is coming dangerously close too Domi's territory but overall I'm sure we can see some interesting things develop from this.


Yeah, it's very similar to the old neut Domi, only better.

The new Domi is going to be busy failing to carve out a new niche for itself at Scorch'd Apoc-ranges, though. Lol

Fixed.

The Dominix won't be able to compete with a sniper Apoc because they either have to sit still and take full damage (because Sentry Drones don't move) or move and abandon their drones (because Sentry Drones don't move or return to the drone bay at range).

The Dominix also won't be able to compete at close range since the Armageddon can do pretty much everything the Dominix can do... plus extra.


Sniper Apoc? Lol, Apoc is made of fail. Even in blobs Abaddon is the boat to use. And you don't babysit your sentries like they're your family jewel. You leave them and do what you need to do, pop out new ones as they die and abandon old ones as the need arise.

That said, yes, Domi fails compared to the new geddon, if it makes it into the game as is.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-04-16 23:50:34 UTC
awwwwww sheeeeiiiiit I literally just finished getting my Amarr skills up, and with torp 5 its gon' get crunk up in hea'
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-04-17 01:01:11 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
And you don't babysit your sentries like they're your family jewel. You leave them and do what you need to do, pop out new ones as they die and abandon old ones as the need arise.

Unless you are in a nimble ship like the Ishtar (and can burn around field to collect your drones) or in a close range brawl... why would you abandon a motionless weapon system you can only "reload" one or two more times? Drones are not exactly expendable when they make up more than half your damage.

How did you Veterans start?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-04-17 01:40:32 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
And you don't babysit your sentries like they're your family jewel. You leave them and do what you need to do, pop out new ones as they die and abandon old ones as the need arise.

Unless you are in a nimble ship like the Ishtar (and can burn around field to collect your drones) or in a close range brawl... why would you abandon a motionless weapon system you can only "reload" one or two more times? Drones are not exactly expendable when they make up more than half your damage.


3 sets is enough to last the duration of most small gang engagements, and Domi is about to get more, or do you plan to never dock?

If you fly Ishtar with low HAC skill in the middle of null for pve, that's a different matter than what we were talking about.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2013-04-17 01:52:30 UTC
How many large neuts can the new Geddon fit? A full rack? PG looks a bit tight.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#18 - 2013-04-17 02:11:08 UTC
They need to make Sentries able to return to the mothership at range (slowly, maybe no mwd so like 400m/s or something) but unable to shoot while moving. It would greatly help Sentry useability which the Domi really needs since now better Sentries is all it has over the Geddon which has taken over its Neut + Drone niche.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#19 - 2013-04-17 04:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
sabre906 wrote:
3 sets is enough to last the duration of most small gang engagements, and Domi is about to get more, or do you plan to never dock?

Three sets of sentry drones are DEFINITELY not enough if you are sniping. The last time I pulled some sniper shenanigans I bounced between at least 5 or 6 different tactical points. That's 5 or 6 times I would have left sentry drones behind had I been flying a drone boat.
Face it... sniping with sentry drones is a gimmick due to the nature of sentry drones (again, they are immobile). Apocs (or your preferred Abaddons) can pull off sniper tactics better and more efficiently because they won't leave behind their own weapon system just by moving around!!
Slapping a bonus that only really applies to sentry drones is a wishful and misguided judgement on the part of CCP... and yes... I'm mad (which almost NEVER happens).

Btw... how do you expect to restock on drones when you are in the middle of hostile territory?

edit: citation on a drone bay buff for the Dominix. I'm not finding it anywhere.

sabre906 wrote:
If you fly Ishtar with low HAC skill in the middle of null for pve, that's a different matter than what we were talking about.

The Ishtar is the only ship I have ever seen to use sentries beyond "sit and tank." This is due to its incredible mobility (in a shield-nano fit of course) which allows it to easily collect sentries that it leaves behind without putting itself in unnecessary danger.

How did you Veterans start?
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#20 - 2013-04-17 05:34:47 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
3 sets is enough to last the duration of most small gang engagements, and Domi is about to get more, or do you plan to never dock?

Three sets of sentry drones are DEFINITELY not enough if you are sniping. The last time I pulled some sniper shenanigans I bounced between at least 5 or 6 different tactical points. That's 5 or 6 times I would have left sentry drones behind had I been flying a drone boat.
Face it... sniping with sentry drones is a gimmick due to the nature of sentry drones (again, they are immobile). Apocs (or your preferred Abaddons) can pull off sniper tactics better and more efficiently because they won't leave behind their own weapon system just by moving around!!
Slapping a bonus that only really applies to sentry drones is a wishful and misguided judgement on the part of CCP... and yes... I'm mad (which almost NEVER happens).

Btw... how do you expect to restock on drones when you are in the middle of hostile territory?

edit: citation on a drone bay buff for the Dominix. I'm not finding it anywhere.

sabre906 wrote:
If you fly Ishtar with low HAC skill in the middle of null for pve, that's a different matter than what we were talking about.

The Ishtar is the only ship I have ever seen to use sentries beyond "sit and tank." This is due to its incredible mobility (in a shield-nano fit of course) which allows it to easily collect sentries that it leaves behind without putting itself in unnecessary danger.


I don't know what you intend on using sentry-based ships for, but if you plan on using it like an old-school sniper HAC or a sniping Tornado/Naga, sentries are terrible because you ditch them every time you perch or warp out (which is often). But you know this and it is the reason why no one ever used Ishtars in HAC gangs back in 2008 or 2009.

However, our alliance experimented with sentry-based fleet comps with mixed results. Having flown both Gila and Navy Domi fleets extensively, there's only been two occasions where we ran out of drones. And one of those times we were able to scoop our old sets back up so it wasn't a big deal. 90% of the time the engagements were short enough for the limited number of sentry drones to not matter. Doesn't mean we didn't have to worry about it though.
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