Intergalactic Summit

In that case you have my apology for jumping to conclusions and my thanks for understanding where I was going initially.

I apologize for it sounding accusatory. I don't know if it helps your feelings in regards to me but I'll simply say that I thought it best not to call out anyone specifically, as I didn't want it to appear as nothing but a snide personal attack from a Federation Citizen towards a State Citizen. I thought making it a broader observation on the tone of some comments was a better approach.

Another word that describes the Summit being flooded with partisan threads is "diplomacy". While I can understand your desire to keep the discussion civil, there's a certain amount of outrage that simply must be expressed first. You have to understand that death squads tend to push people's buttons, for some reason or other.

I'll ignore the "rouge soldiers" freudian slip there...

First of all, does it matter how likely it is that the average Caldari will be gunned down by one of these death squads? Does it matter how many Caldari are gunned down by them? Are you really casting yourself as an apologist for death squads? As if they were a reasonable and acceptable phenomenon?

Secondly, how many Caldari do you estimate are gunned down by the State? You do know that the State has been funneling immense quantities of resources into a century-long tube-child program designed to increase the population, right?

Where did I say I was supporting death squads? Why are you putting words in my mouth? Why do you only talk in questions? Are you aware that it's obnoxious and blurs what little point you are trying to get across?



The State's brutality is kept heavily censored by their government. (Keep in mind that these things didn't happen before Heth stole power). As a result, it is impossible to estimate the number of executions carried out. Also keep in mind that non-patriot bloc corporations don't partake in this ruthlessness. It is entirely Provist sponsored. Just look at how easily Kaalakoita shot up their own workers who were peacefully protesting.

Also, the tube-child program has been canceled for quite some time now. Get your facts straight before trying to look like you know what you are talking about.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deteis#Tube_Child

A little interesting that you ask him to apologize for this



When you yourself mix the actions of a FEDEF-aligned alliance in with the actions of these murderers, essentially claiming that the GMVA knew about their existence and/or agree with the actions taken here. And let's not forget that as soon as these news broke the anti-Federal hate-spewing from the usual suspects started once again, without an apparent care in the world on your part, but when someone shows up and accurately states that the sentiments shown here are " why the concept of peace is so unlikely" it's grounds for an apology.

Then you get it, to boot.

More generally, would it be to much to ask that we spare the cheap-shots until a time when anything is proven for sure? Yes, we don't like each other, old news. But by now this group would have been claimed to be rogue troopers from either the State or Federation and either of those would have denied any involvement. If the SOE claimed that these were State-aligned forces, would you still have reacted like you did?

I wonder.

Did I say you were supporting death squads? You said:

"The average Caldari citizen is more likely to be gunned down by their own government than these rouge soldiers."

It's not a statement of support of death squads. However, it sure sounds like an apologists excuse for the existence of them. You know, "sure, there may be death squads, but the Caldari are better off under the threat of the death squads than they are under their own government".



What words? You mean "The average Caldari citizen is more likely to be gunned down by their own government than these rouge soldiers."?



Actually, I was questioning your arguments, hence the... you know... questions.

Sometimes I listen to people complaining that the Federation has this "holier than thou" attitude, that the Federation seems to feel that it knows what's good for people better than those people do themselves. Statements like yours make me agree with them.

Not at all. I would be personally terrified if I were in the position of Caldari in Black Rise right now. My statement was to point out the logical gap in Provist and their supporters. Yes, they are directly blaming the Gallente for what has happened, yet never seem to reflect on themselves when they committed a similar atrocity about a month ago.



Problem is, most of what you thought was my argument came out of your head.



Again, another fine example of you having absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The very next thing I said after the one sentence you chose to over analyze was clearly critical of the Federation. How can I both claim my people are better, while simultaneously criticizing them?

Hell, I regularly bash my country on my news talk/satire holoprojector program and have done so several times here on the IGS, especially regarding domestic affairs.

All's fair. One of the few redeeming points of the Summit is that we're exposed to knowledge that we may not otherwise find.

Indeed. I would also like to share some of my other thoughts on what you mentioned.



The Kaalakoita protest and the massacre that followed it is clear evidence of what the Provist think of those who verbally oppose them, let alone actually taking measures to oppose them. My Caldari relatives on the other side of the border are very careful what of what they say when they criticize the Provist regime during our communications. Freedom of speech certainly exist in the State don't get me wrong, however what is deemed as acceptable speech is much different than it is in the Federation.

While corporations with similar views as Ishukone were outraged by the massacre, Kaalakoita, while not praising the actions of their security forces are certainly indifferent to them. Tibus Heth claimed he would personally investigate what happened but have we received any answers? No. It's likely that we never will. To give him some doubt the Battle of Caldari Prime occurred shortly after, but that doesn't explain why non-war related personnel could of oversaw the investigation. Keep in mind that there was a media black out when the massacre occurred. As someone who works in the media, I can tell you that whenever we aren't allowed to get information on a major event, sirens start going off in my head.