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Issues thread for the new font on SiSi

First post
Author
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#201 - 2011-10-31 11:24:58 UTC
David Xavier wrote:
This is getting confusing.. could somebody ( developer or a self proclaimed ninja) make a high resolution screen capture of this elusive new font type with characters of least the English alphabet present ( the more the better ) ?

Would be better to judge that than jumping to conclusions based on unfinished code.


It should be back on SiSi soon Smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Sarmatiko
#202 - 2011-10-31 14:14:46 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
It should be back on SiSi soon Smile

Can you confirm UI resize feature? Is it in early development stage or will be delivered in winter expansion? Roll
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#203 - 2011-10-31 18:44:41 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
It should be back on SiSi soon Smile

Can you confirm UI resize feature? Is it in early development stage or will be delivered in winter expansion? Roll


you'll see soon Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Tarra Nobilii
Doomheim
#204 - 2011-10-31 23:29:21 UTC
Just wanted to provide my feedback after loading Singularity. The new font seems rather DOS-ish....the old font, as flawed as it may have been, did create a unique game feel. Furthermore, the new font is easier to read..but that could easily be because the font size is clearly larger. On the settings screen, there are some issues as the font remains jumbled amongst the settings and is unreadable.

I strongly support the old font...then again I am Amarr and struggle with change.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#205 - 2011-10-31 23:36:52 UTC
Tarra Nobilii wrote:
Just wanted to provide my feedback after loading Singularity. The new font seems rather DOS-ish....the old font, as flawed as it may have been, did create a unique game feel. Furthermore, the new font is easier to read..but that could easily be because the font size is clearly larger. On the settings screen, there are some issues as the font remains jumbled amongst the settings and is unreadable.

I strongly support the old font...then again I am Amarr and struggle with change.



there are some new features that are missing labels and therefore are way too long and the text gets jumbled, that should be fixed soon thoughSmile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Verone
Veto Corp
#206 - 2011-11-01 05:20:21 UTC

Christ almighty... the new font looks TERRIBLE.

Ugh

Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM

Serican Grind
The House of Scotch and Beer
#207 - 2011-11-01 06:51:10 UTC
Unfortunately, this font both looks to "edged" and "jagged". Worst yet, upon launching sisi earlier today and looking at the new font it gave me a headache made me nauseous. Ugh
Solhild
Doomheim
#208 - 2011-11-01 20:23:37 UTC
Well I think it is one of the cleanest fonts I've ever read. Fantastic piece of work!

Very well done and thanks Big smile


Wish I could use it on my ebook reader Smile
Natalinnux
Perkone
Caldari State
#209 - 2011-11-01 22:29:01 UTC
it hurts my eyes. do not want.
Isnaar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2011-11-01 22:46:25 UTC
I'd like to provide some feedback regarding the font issue. I greatly appreciate attempts to improve gaming experience via changing old font to new, easier to read one which despite some overlapsing issues looks really well. BUT I consider old font to be one of major components contributing to this unique and attractive game feel. If the new font is to stay I'd love to have choice between new font and old font. New font is much bigger and for people that know what is where and what are they looking for it can make finding some things harder, because items in menus will be much bigger and they will require more space, which could be used to show more positions in old font. It feels like CCP feels the need to take something good away, didn't work with spinning so now the font is on target.

tl;dr: If the new font has to stay at least give us possibility to use ol' good font that we love so much. I don't like new one.
Alexandria Aesirial
Outback Steakhouse of Pancakes
Deepwater Hooligans
#211 - 2011-11-02 05:44:31 UTC
The new font is easier on the eye but not as good looking as the old one. Ermmm...cough * There's no relative balance in the size of the text. In summary, make the font size the same as it was before and change only the font.

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.

botcher0
WYNX Industries
#212 - 2011-11-02 17:37:19 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I don't know what this person is talking about but it has been stated a few times before (and in the dev blog as well) that the new and old font don't render together so you will not get the option of choosing between the two fonts. sorry, but here is your reason (again:P).


That's no explanation. We do not want 2 fonts at the same time, we need an option to choose one or another. If switching the font on the fly is not possible, then maybe you should rework on the codebase until it is, and then work on a new font. And no, i'm NOT kidding.

Did i tell you, that the ugly new font looks like from a cheap asia-grinder? Yea, i think i did. Nevermind.
Geldorf Drakar
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2011-11-02 17:55:13 UTC
From my understanding, the new font is supposed to fix issues with readability, like differentiating between '0' zero and 'o' oh. However, in 8 years of playing EVE, I can't recall a single instance that I've ever had trouble with the readability of the font style.

The proposed new font style looks to me to be larger than it needs to be, detracting from the clean look of the interface that the current font provides, and is far too bold in that it feels like it is projecting out into my view, rather than remaining unobtrusive until needed like the current font. It is jagged, thin, and overly expanded in dimension.

Furthermore, I actually like most of the labels being in all capital case characters, doing so makes the labels feel more linear, and more like the labels that they are. The new font and capitalization styling makes them feel like they should be starting a sentence, not labeling something.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2011-11-03 07:26:30 UTC
I despise the new font. I've always liked the old one.

The new font looks like a child scribbled letters on my monitor with a pencil.

The numbers are bloated and horrible.

My wallet transactions will take more vertical space, and most things will take up more horizontal space. more paging thru items to get the same information. OVERVIEWS are going to require more vertical space, and that's something that will bring you some ire from the customers. That's just the tip.


I hate that it's not fixed-width.


I prefer the clean look of all caps, sure it's less informal, but a computer ( either in a station or in a starship ) is feeding you data.



I don't like it, at all. Aesthetically it's bad. And it takes up more precious UI space to do the same job as the old font, so it's less efficient.

Give us the option of keeping the old font, or don't do it. Learn from Incarna. Plenty of folks wanted WiS just like plenty of folks want a new font. Don't take away the option of using the old font we've had for 8 years, just like you should'nt have taken away ship spinning when you gave those folks incarna.

Offer us options? Great! Force a change because some folks want it and others don't, Bad!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2011-11-03 07:30:06 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Kal Vekstras wrote:
Athreya wrote:
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:
All of this could be solved, very easily, by making the current font or the new font a choice. Seriously, no one has any reason to complain if both are available
I think there are two different versions of GUI (english/deutch, russian) and devs trying to use newer russian for all languages to reduce workload in the future. Otherwise why dont just stay with old font and fix problems in it. Probably not compatible. Roll



If this is true, then CCP should point it out. "Using a single font for all language versions would reduce the workload in the future." That may not be a reason everyone likes or accepts, but at least it's a reason. At the moment, the lack of an official reason why we can't have the option to choose between the two fonts is making the entire discussion far more difficult.

Lots of people love the old font, and lots of people want the change, so I'll pose the question to CCP again.
Why can't we have the option to choose between them? An official answer will go a long way to making this a civil discussion.


I don't know what this person is talking about but it has been stated a few times before (and in the dev blog as well) that the new and old font don't render together so you will not get the option of choosing between the two fonts. sorry, but here is your reason (again:P).


then dump the new font and keep the old one. Give the old one a re-size feature. Save some freakin time. This is incarna all over again, wasting dev dollars on something a few folks with bad eyesight want, and ramming it down everyone else's throat.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#216 - 2011-11-03 07:44:24 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:


Some people actually like the new font and agree with us on that it's more readable. It is very hard to please everyone!

We will of course do our best to address all issues that have been raised here (other than the "OMG THE FONT IS UGLY" and other alike).

There won't be a way to use the old font and there won't be a way to select fontsize. That's because it's hard to maintain that in a UI window, if you make the font larger, it's not going to fit there anymore. UI Scaling would be a better way to sort issues with the fontsize, but that's another project.


seriously, some people liked staring at the incarna door.... and some people liked 80 dollar monocles. Is that your arguement here?

Have you lost subscribers because the font was a little hard to read? Do you have data on that?



Make the old font larger.

Or, take your own suggestion and make the UI Scalable.

The new font is horrid. It's doesn't reflect scifi - eve'ness.

and yes, OMG it's ugly.

You think that doesn't matter? That matters the most of all. Eve has often been compared to a fancy IRC client, or a pay-to-play spreadsheet game.

a HUGE percentage of your time in eve is spent starting at the font.

Far more often than the pretty nebulaes, or even the pretty ships ( especially when you took away ship-spinning, but we all know how that ended.)

Yes the font appearance matters far more than it's functionality.

whether it's pvp, chatting, or minging, or marketeering, or scamming, the thing you use the most relates to the font.

so take your piece of garbage font, and get rid of it. it sucks, we know it, you know it, and changing the font is NOT the answer to the readability issue.

SCALING IS, and you've mentioned that 'future project' yourself. So scrap this, and start on that. There's you're answer.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Sniperdoc
Stargate Kommand
#217 - 2011-11-03 13:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sniperdoc
I play on two Samsung 206BW 20in 1680x1050 monitors. When I tried Sisi again, for the first time ever since I started playing Eve, I didn't have to lean forward and rest my elbow on my desk to play Eve. It sounds stupid, but because of the constant pressure of the elbow on my desk I actually developed Cubital Tunnel Syndrome... pinky and half of the middle finger goes numb because the cubital nerve gets pinched and damaged and can cause permanent damage/pain.

For those who are starting to bash on people because they can't see... I have 20/20 vision, no cataracts, no pterygiums. I have good eye health. But, I can't even imagine people that HAVE vision issues... Older folks who play Eve and have to wear their glasses, I can just guess that a good font change would be like heaven's angels singing.

Some more comments about the font here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29248&find=unread

My verdict:
KEEP THE NEW FONT!!!
Wightpants IV
British Legion
#218 - 2011-11-03 15:19:41 UTC
Posted this in another thread (didn't see the sticky, duh!)

Solhild wrote:
Log into SISI and change the font size and UI zooming options, it'll serve much better than looking at a pic.

Ok, I'm officially stupid, where are these options? I can't find them anywhere.


Ris Dnalor wrote:
I'll be completely honest, those screen shots make me hate the new font even more. It looks like a child took a pencil and printed the letters onto the screen, rather than something that was generated by the computer.... and what's up with the numbers? they're huge and bulbous.... so now instead of looking thru 10 pages of wallet transactions, I'll have to look through 20 just to get the same amount of information?

Overviews are going to fill up with fewer targets..... I see sooo many problems.

I know some people have trouble reading the font, but that's not the only issue here that's relveant. UI space is at a premium, and why should the words begin to take up 150% or 200% of the space they used to if I can read them fine they way they are now?

Well it seems we're in the minority here, but I have to agree. I have no problem with the current font presently on Tranquility. This new one looks like someone is writing a BASIC program on a Spectrum 48k. More importantly, I can only see about half as much information on screen at a time = major functionality impairment.

Either provide an option to keep the current font, or at least a way to resize it so that we don't lose functionality.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2011-11-04 01:24:49 UTC
Sniperdoc wrote:
I play on two Samsung 206BW 20in 1680x1050 monitors. When I tried Sisi again, for the first time ever since I started playing Eve, I didn't have to lean forward and rest my elbow on my desk to play Eve. It sounds stupid, but because of the constant pressure of the elbow on my desk I actually developed Cubital Tunnel Syndrome... pinky and half of the middle finger goes numb because the cubital nerve gets pinched and damaged and can cause permanent damage/pain.

For those who are starting to bash on people because they can't see... I have 20/20 vision, no cataracts, no pterygiums. I have good eye health. But, I can't even imagine people that HAVE vision issues... Older folks who play Eve and have to wear their glasses, I can just guess that a good font change would be like heaven's angels singing.

Some more comments about the font here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29248&find=unread

My verdict:
KEEP THE NEW FONT!!!


and scaling the current font larger would fix your problem without making eve look stupid. functionality doesn't have to be ugly.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Psychophantic
#220 - 2011-11-04 03:34:31 UTC
Sniperdoc wrote:
I play on two Samsung 206BW 20in 1680x1050 monitors. When I tried Sisi again, for the first time ever since I started playing Eve, I didn't have to lean forward and rest my elbow on my desk to play Eve. It sounds stupid, but because of the constant pressure of the elbow on my desk I actually developed Cubital Tunnel Syndrome... pinky and half of the middle finger goes numb because the cubital nerve gets pinched and damaged and can cause permanent damage/pain.

For those who are starting to bash on people because they can't see... I have 20/20 vision, no cataracts, no pterygiums. I have good eye health. But, I can't even imagine people that HAVE vision issues... Older folks who play Eve and have to wear their glasses, I can just guess that a good font change would be like heaven's angels singing.

Some more comments about the font here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29248&find=unread

My verdict:
KEEP THE NEW FONT!!!


1680x1050 on 20" and fonts are too small?

I don't blame your eyesight, I don't blame CCP, I blame monitor manufacturers.

27" is the smallest I'd go for 1920x1080 and 23" is the smallest I'd go for 1680x1050 even then my parents have to lower the res on theirs.

I mean now they're making 21" 1920x1080....

Either wait for a scalable UI or drop your resolution.

Old font forever.