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Why don't gankers and war deccers just go to low/null/wh space????
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Prince Kobol
#241 - 2013-04-15 12:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


If new player starts Eve and loses their ship to a gank in the first few months and there first reaction is complain and quit then good as I don't want those kind of players in Eve.

The kind of players which is good for Eve are those that either go "cool, I want to do that" or "bastard.. I will get him back"

Also most people I have ganked are not new players but people who have been for playing for years and still refuse to fit any kind of tank because they are special little snowflakes
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#242 - 2013-04-15 12:39:25 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


more like, the orca pilot left a car on the road side unlocked and the ganker just took it.
again, the orca pilot did nothing and has committed no crime.

stop whining, it's pathetic.


I am not whining, I'm merely pointing out the fact that this has now become so wide spread that every noob wannabe pirate has made an alt purely for blowing people up with next to no consequences.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#243 - 2013-04-15 12:42:05 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


more like, the orca pilot left a car on the road side unlocked and the ganker just took it.
again, the orca pilot did nothing and has committed no crime.

stop whining, it's pathetic.


I am not whining, I'm merely pointing out the fact that this has now become so wide spread that every noob wannabe pirate has made an alt purely for blowing people up with next to no consequences.


Given that the mission runners / incursion fleets keep the same pace as they did before:
Every gank takes 'hard' isk out of the game (insurance payout < worth of the destroyed stuff).
Making the worth of all ISK climbing up a bit.

My true stories
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#244 - 2013-04-15 12:43:07 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


"CCP, I know you have buffed concord firepower, made concord respond faster, buffed barges, given us more ways to fight back, the ability to sell our killrights to others, the ability to shoot at -10s all the time, the options of hiring others to go to war with them and the ability to place bounties on their heads but please, just one more nerf?

Its just not fair that I have to fit a tank like everyone else and pay attention to what I am doing. I don't want to have my actions to have any negetive impact on me!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#245 - 2013-04-15 12:43:59 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


more like, the orca pilot left a car on the road side unlocked and the ganker just took it.
again, the orca pilot did nothing and has committed no crime.

stop whining, it's pathetic.


I am not whining, I'm merely pointing out the fact that this has now become so wide spread that every noob wannabe pirate has made an alt purely for blowing people up with next to no consequences.


Barge ganking is at its lowest point in the last 9 years.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#246 - 2013-04-15 12:44:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
When the targets who have far too much isk on their ships and no tank fitted go into low sec we will follow.


loo, you made me spit coffee. You sir owe me one keyboard.
Dave Stark
#247 - 2013-04-15 12:48:53 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


more like, the orca pilot left a car on the road side unlocked and the ganker just took it.
again, the orca pilot did nothing and has committed no crime.

stop whining, it's pathetic.


I am not whining, I'm merely pointing out the fact that this has now become so wide spread that every noob wannabe pirate has made an alt purely for blowing people up with next to no consequences.


there you go
whining about alts.
as if it would be any different if a friend did it, or you paid some one for such service.

the alt isn't for blowing up people without consequences, it's for flying an orca.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#248 - 2013-04-15 12:49:36 UTC
Reuben Johnson wrote:
"Why don't gankers and war deccers just go to low/null/wh space????"
Because players in low/null/sov/wh will shoot back. Hell, they're more likely to shoot first. Gankers want easy peasy, not malis from Pend Insurance.


And yet soooo many more people die in null to other people shooting them than they do in high sec (7 times as many according to ccp, despite the fact that null has 1/8th or so the population of high sec).

High sec liars always say "null is so boring, thats why gankers exists" but thats bs, there is plenty of pvp in null sec and the facts are evidence of this. No, ganking happens because thats where the lazy fat cats are.

Stop being lazy fat cats, watch ganking die.
Frying Doom
#249 - 2013-04-15 12:51:19 UTC
I find it funny that people who are paying gankers, to gank them are now complaining about it.

Tank the crap out of your exhumers and the gankers pay you, don't carry much in a freighter and they pretend you don't exist.

They are their for isk.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#250 - 2013-04-15 12:53:19 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Andski wrote:
the whole "lowsec/null are for PvP, hisec isn't" mentality is driven by CCP's coddling of the worst players in the game

until that coddling ends and they are less sheltered from the realities of eve that mentality will continue to be prevalent


Dictating the realities of EvE again?

The reality is, CCP cannot survive on alts forever, which means they need to bring in more new players. With the number of griefers in the game, CCP has no choice but to make it harder for them.

Easy to understand for a logical person.....Roll



CCP can survive on alts, every accout gets paid for somehow. Beside,s the game is still growing with real actual new people, those that don't suck survive, despite what you want to believe.

If the gaming portion of humanity is too wussified to be able to accept potential loss of pixels in a video game, maybe EVE needs to die while it still has some dignity left.
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-04-15 12:56:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
"Why don't gankers and war deccers just go to low/null/wh space????"
Because players in low/null/sov/wh will shoot back. Hell, they're more likely to shoot first. Gankers want easy peasy, not malis from Pend Insurance.


And yet soooo many more people die in null to other people shooting them than they do in high sec (7 times as many according to ccp, despite the fact that null has 1/8th or so the population of high sec).

High sec liars always say "null is so boring, thats why gankers exists" but thats bs, there is plenty of pvp in null sec and the facts are evidence of this. No, ganking happens because thats where the lazy fat cats are.

Stop being lazy fat cats, watch ganking die.


There's probably not any ganking in low sec because people don't get concorded there... Some people think it's fun, some don't.
There's plenty of fights in null and low, but what it ends up being about is who's got the bigger batphone... unless you decide to join a Null Block or a pirate alliance, you don't have a chance of the pirate life... or you're going to have to choose a system way off grid from everyone.

Do. The. Math.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#252 - 2013-04-15 12:57:20 UTC
StoneCold wrote:
Given that the mission runners / incursion fleets keep the same pace as they did before:
Every gank takes 'hard' isk out of the game (insurance payout < worth of the destroyed stuff).
Making the worth of all ISK climbing up a bit.


It takes wealth out of the game, not ISK

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2013-04-15 12:57:23 UTC
Andski wrote:
just gonna quote this again because well i'm right

Andski wrote:
the whole "lowsec/null are for PvP, hisec isn't" mentality is driven by CCP's coddling of the worst players in the game

until that coddling ends and they are less sheltered from the realities of eve that mentality will continue to be prevalent


I thought the coddling of the worst players was the banning and suspensions on newbie station can baiters and such. Those newbie can baiter types follow the same basic rewards model that the bulk of your PvP players follow.

PvP isn't clean here but that degree is seen as disgusting and harmful to the game by the bulk of the players - PvE and PvP focused -- but not all of them.

It's just amazing at times how close some people want to get to that style while still claiming they are quality PvP players and how obsessively moronic they are about their"style". They literally would obliterate all new players to this game if they weren't stopped from doing so and yes even they think of themselves as "real PvP players".

No - I'm not lumping all PvP players in as being can baiters but even you have to admit there are a lot who would go that route if they could get away with it - even if it meant the game lost all new players. And there's nothing "the community" would do to stop that kind of destructive play beyond whine at CCP for rules/mechanics changes to help new players - "not our job" and "not worth wasting the time to try and stop them"...

Thus CCP builds different environments in the game and pretty much insists people abide by their layout. When they violate CCP's ideas on how the layout should operate-- things like titan nerfs, buffs to mining ships and such; are implemented.

I've a bit of faith in their limiting how destructive certain elements are allowed to become in this game - no matter how whiny either side becomes.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#254 - 2013-04-15 12:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Mocam wrote:
I thought the coddling of the worst players was the banning and suspensions on newbie station can baiters and such. Those newbie can baiter types follow the same basic rewards model that the bulk of your PvP players follow.


It's the buffs to exhumers (specifically AFK mackinaws) and the changes to wreck looting. The worst players are those who don't wish to play the game at all - those who mine AFK and haul on autopilot - and they've been coddled and enabled even more with each patch.

EVE is the only MMO I know of that allows for such passive gameplay that is hardly distinguishable from full-blown botting.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#255 - 2013-04-15 13:01:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

CCP can survive on alts, every accout gets paid for somehow. Beside,s the game is still growing with real actual new people, those that don't suck survive, despite what you want to believe.
If the gaming portion of humanity is too wussified to be able to accept potential loss of pixels in a video game, maybe EVE needs to die while it still has some dignity left.


Since when did Eve ever have dignity?

Also the first part is a very risky business model for longevity. One of which will probably be felt soonish.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#256 - 2013-04-15 13:03:42 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Also the first part is a very risky business model for longevity. One of which will probably be felt soonish.


Well **** it's lasted 10 years so I guess it's worked so far!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#257 - 2013-04-15 13:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

CCP can survive on alts, every accout gets paid for somehow. Beside,s the game is still growing with real actual new people, those that don't suck survive, despite what you want to believe.
If the gaming portion of humanity is too wussified to be able to accept potential loss of pixels in a video game, maybe EVE needs to die while it still has some dignity left.


Since when did Eve ever have dignity?

Also the first part is a very risky business model for longevity. One of which will probably be felt soonish.


10 years and stronger than ever, anytime now right?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#258 - 2013-04-15 13:16:27 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


Sounds like it would be pretty easy to kill some "low skill point alts" with -5 or lower sec.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Dave Stark
#259 - 2013-04-15 13:17:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


Sounds like it would be pretty easy to kill some "low skill point alts" with -5 or lower sec.


sounds more like they shouldn't have ignored the age old rule of "don't fly what you can't afford to lose"
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#260 - 2013-04-15 13:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

CCP can survive on alts, every accout gets paid for somehow. Beside,s the game is still growing with real actual new people, those that don't suck survive, despite what you want to believe.
If the gaming portion of humanity is too wussified to be able to accept potential loss of pixels in a video game, maybe EVE needs to die while it still has some dignity left.


Since when did Eve ever have dignity?

Also the first part is a very risky business model for longevity. One of which will probably be felt soonish.


10 years and stronger than ever, anytime now right?


The rapid proliferation of alts didn't really start until a couple years ago when PLEX was introduced. The first indicator was Incarna and how a alt based game can blow up in your face. Since Incarna didn't have much game mechanic changes, it was mostly people dropping alts or a number of high alt people quit, which then caused CCP to drop a large % of their staff as a result. Anytime you have a large portion of your business controlled by a small number of customers, one mistake can cost you dearly.

In regards to "stronger than ever" its hard to say due to CCP having no public metric on number of alt accounts compared to actual individuals. So where the game seems to be improving player base wise how many of those are actually players and not just alts is unknown. Also with null being for the most part stagnant, lowsec being terrible, and highsec being the target of rage of everything its hard to see Eve being at its peak.

E: Not saying Eve is dying, just concerned about CCPs focus on promoting alts instead of retention.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden