EVE General Discussion

Nope.

Incorrect.

Fixed.

See, this is an excellent example of the kind of vitriolic hate I'm talking about that we so often see from carebears: based on nothing but presumptions and categorical thinking, without any notion of context or bigger picture, and projecting your own anxieties onto others.

So you're talking about using the game as absolutely nothing other than as a chat program. You never undock; you never trade; you never use any ships; the only window you ever use is a couple of chat channels where you only talk in friendly terms with other players. Because that's just the thing: the moment you do anything else than chat a bit, you are engaging in PvP due to the core design of the game — you simply cannot avoid it.

So at that point, I really have to ask: if that's the “gameplay” you're after, why are you spending $15 a month and downloading double-digit gigabytes of worthless sound and visual assets, when what you're looking for is mIRC? It's less than 2MB and sets you back less than the $20 for the rest of your life…

Would it shock you to learn that all that team has provided is PvP, just like everything else in EVE?

Of course, this response is to the question in the title.

Highsec PVP being easy mode is why it's such a common occurrence on these forums for lowsec folks to tell highsec dwelling newbies who're asking what to do about wars that they shouldn't bother fighting because [Some Game Mechanic] makes it impossible to beat highsec griefers.

No, it's the only example, and it's far more restricted that you imagine.

Riiight… I'll just use my standard copypasta for when people ask for a no-pvp switch. Let's see how many you actually engage in…

A "no PvP" switch in EVE would have to have at least the following restrictions:
· You can obviously no longer lock any player ship.
· You can no longer activate any kind of AoE weaponry or module.
· You can no longer use the market, contracts or the trading window.
· You can no longer access or manage POSes and their services.
· You can no longer mine.
· You can no longer shoot rats.
· You can no longer open any kind of container in space.
· You can no longer use the on-board scanner or scan probes.
· You can no longer be in a fleet.
· You can no longer use salvagers and similar mini-profession modules.
· You can no longer access the industry interface.
· You can no longer access player-sovereign systems.
· You can no longer access free-floating permanent sites in space.
· You can no longer see local.
· You no longer show up in local.
· You can no longer see other player ships on the overview.
· You no longer show up on other player's overviews.
· You can no longer join a player corp.
· …and probably many more that I can't think of now.

So I sure hope you're not breaking any of those restrictions… because if you are, you're not avoiding EVE's PvP.

Because it's incredibly fun to be in a full-pvp environment where, no matter what I do, I am engaging other players in conflict and vice versa, and since no other game offers anything even remotely of the same scope and complexity.

And yes, I saw what you did: you didn't answer the question. So I'll ask it again: if all you want out of EVE is a handful of chat channels to RP in (and not even that, since there can't be any conflict), why aren't you using mIRC instead? You'll get exactly the same thing for a much smaller cost and footprint.

So you're basically just building a giant straw-man, then, and aren't really engaging in a reasonable argument-based debate. Good to know.

I'm asking you if you understand how the “PvE” content in EVE actually works? You do realise that the “PvE” teams are creating PvP content, right (unavoidably, since everything in the game is PvP)?

Good point. I'll add it for future reference:

· Your ship stops immediately without imparting any momentum if it runs into another ship.

I'll add another one for you, Tippia. I get lots of info just looking at ship models: what kind of tank is running, weapon types (you can even tell T2 if you look close enough). No longer see any other ship in space, I suppose.

Monk, I'd say popping/salvaging wrecks before someone else could count as PVP. You're trying to do it before someone else gets the chance.

Add in, just popping those crosses before I can is competing against me, mission or no.

Just being able to see other player ships in space, even without the overview would offer some utility as an intel tool, you could abuse that, particularly if you no longer showed up in the overviews of other players and even moreso if they can cloak too.

Because meta the ability to do anything at all in the same environment as other players and observe or interact with them in any way is likely to give a character PVP utility. Even if no intent to use that utility for PVP purposes exists the perception that a character could be being used for that purpose could create a situation where a character that has no actual ability to directly affect other players in the game at all and is barely visible is still engaging in a PVP activity because other players are perceiving that character as acting against them.

Pretty much a non-pvp character would have to not have any means of observing, being observed by or interacting with any other character (or any information resulting by actions by characters) in the game.

It's more likely that it's because most players that'd go to low sec or null, don't have big bat phones.
Also it's fun when the mission bears accept duels in their 3,5B nightmares.

Because Highsec miners are easy targets. The skills, talent and equipment needed are minimal, while the risk to gankers is virtually nil.

So why wouldn't they?

You need to change the equation by making it more difficult and costly for them. By your actions. Change the way you play.

just curious: any tables / spinboards around? I've heard about such measurement few days after this counter was implemented. Have never seen one people mentioned such counter for like a year.