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KARIN MIDULAR IN COMA; REPUBLIC DEMANDS TRANSFER
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#61 - 2013-04-13 20:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Is it not the next of kin, relatives, family, or similar, that decides on a person's care if they are unable, even among outsiders, even among the Enemy?

Beyond that, I do not think I can explain kinship to you, Captain Farel. I think I recall trying and not being very successful.


Well I can not speak for Karin Midular of course, but I would not want my kin to take decisions for me when I can not take them myself. I would rather prefer experts doing so.

Does she owe her life to them or something ?
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#62 - 2013-04-13 20:06:06 UTC
Adreena Madeveda wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:

Smeared her hate of everything Sebiestor, again


Dear Gosakumori,
I wish you a long and meaningful life ; I wish you a beautiful daughter, full of spirits and wits."


Why, thank you, sweetie darling! I have a beautiful niece, actually. She's fallen for a trio of surfer bums on Luminaire and has a talent for the stage. It occurs to me I've been terrible. I should have taken her to Sobaseki-weki and not the puppy I rescued from Istavaan's eruptive melting at Vitalia's Sabikanalia. But he did look fine in that Khanid haori, and we had fun.

In any event, my niece is more progressive than I am - shocking - and swings toward the Sisters rather than the Totem Droppers. Though I suppose that would still be a problem if the Republic manages to conquer both the Empire *and* the Federation.

Oh, stop laughing, sweeties! It's rude!
Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#63 - 2013-04-13 21:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Del Vikus
Lyn Farel wrote:
[quote=Elsebeth Rhiannon]I would not want my kin to take decisions for me when I can not take them myself. I would rather prefer experts doing so.

Does she owe her life to them or something ?


Your comment reveals your ignorance of tribal culture, which is reflected generally in the misunderstanding by the Federation of the Minmatar people. This misunderstanding has exacerbated the situation with the Ray of Matar to unnecessary levels.

One doesn't "owe" the Tribes anything. You *are* the Tribe, and they are you. One doesn't "leave" the Tribe when one crosses a political border; it is not an ephemeral boundary. An expert opinion does not divide the Tribe -- it runs parallel to it. It is relevant to us, and we will consult it as necessary. But there are greater matters at stake -- ones that transcend questions of jurisdiction, and certainly ones that transcend "opinions", regardless of whose mouth they issue from.

Our bloodlines, our stories, and our families are more than a simple collection of sociological factors. The Ray of Matar is not a "celebrity", like those adored in the Federation. She *is* the Tribe -- its voice, its trust, its spirit.

I accept that other cultures do not appreciate these truths. I can even accept that they do not respect them. But what I cannot accept is the pride of politics and "experts" passing judgment over our very nature. They do so now, perhaps knowingly, perhaps unknowingly. The result is the same. No "expert" can "know better" than your Tribe. They can "know differently", but never "better".
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#64 - 2013-04-13 21:44:06 UTC
Del, thank you.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#65 - 2013-04-13 22:00:16 UTC
So wait, what you're saying is that the Republic is expecting the Federation to adhere to tribal customs ignoring the health of a critically ill patient.

While at the same time the Republic refuses to adhere to the Federal way of handling a judicial process by demanding the hand over of a criminal, going as far as to cross the border with a fleet?


Reflect on this hypocritical stance, in the mean time let the medical professionals do their job.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Safai
Yaqin
#66 - 2013-04-13 22:11:47 UTC
Let her go.

If the Lord blesses this pagan leader—the "Ray of Matar"—then He will take her into His arms. This is the best possible outcome and I pray for her deliverance.

Little else to be said.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#67 - 2013-04-13 22:17:09 UTC
Del Vikus wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
[quote=Elsebeth Rhiannon]I would not want my kin to take decisions for me when I can not take them myself. I would rather prefer experts doing so.

Does she owe her life to them or something ?


Your comment reveals your ignorance of tribal culture, which is reflected generally in the misunderstanding by the Federation of the Minmatar people. This misunderstanding has exacerbated the situation with the Ray of Matar to unnecessary levels.

One doesn't "owe" the Tribes anything. You *are* the Tribe, and they are you. One doesn't "leave" the Tribe when one crosses a political border; it is not an ephemeral boundary. An expert opinion does not divide the Tribe -- it runs parallel to it. It is relevant to us, and we will consult it as necessary. But there are greater matters at stake -- ones that transcend questions of jurisdiction, and certainly ones that transcend "opinions", regardless of whose mouth they issue from.

Our bloodlines, our stories, and our families are more than a simple collection of sociological factors. The Ray of Matar is not a "celebrity", like those adored in the Federation. She *is* the Tribe -- its voice, its trust, its spirit.

I accept that other cultures do not appreciate these truths. I can even accept that they do not respect them. But what I cannot accept is the pride of politics and "experts" passing judgment over our very nature. They do so now, perhaps knowingly, perhaps unknowingly. The result is the same. No "expert" can "know better" than your Tribe. They can "know differently", but never "better".


It is not ignorance, it is inability to comprehend, since it does not make any sense. If she is the tribe, as you say, then making everything for her to get killed equates to making everything to kill the tribe.

And yes, an expert in medicine will always know better than a neophyte. Believing otherwise is ignorance.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#68 - 2013-04-14 06:07:48 UTC
To all who think letting tribe decide would mean ignore medical advice: this is not about setting those against each other. Tribe would decide based on medical advice, weighing the medical risks against medical and other benefits.

Farel: you stroke gold, if blindly. The Tribe's Chief is the tribe, even more so than anyone else. When she has been attacked, we have all been attacked. This is not just political for many Sebiestor; it is personal. We have been attacked, we might die, we are hurt and lonely among outsiders.

Of course, if a chief dies, another one will rise and live. That is the advantage of tribe: no death is permanent as long as your kin lives.

I understand that this is difficult for someone who is not Matari to comprehend. The feelings of kinship are something I sometimes think outsiders are genetically unable to feel, just like a sociopath is unable to feel empathy towards another individual, or some individuals are completely asexual. When Gallente talk about fleeting love as the one feeling that "conquers all", one cannot but pity them.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2013-04-14 09:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Are you telling me that the medical experts of the Sebiestor tribe think it would be best to move her out ? It sounds like a lot of speculation to me.

Take it as a sociopath answer, of course, since I am "genetically" not Matari.
Xao Chu-Li
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-04-14 09:45:24 UTC
It would be unjust to suggest that the Tribe could not make an educated and medically sound decision.

It is also unjust to suggest that the Federation is choosing to seek Midular's best interests out of some negative disposition toward the Minmatar or feelings of superiority.

Both cultures and people must strive to understand one another and both must be willing to do so even when it's difficult. The request to have a Sebiestor delegate, shaman and doctor (or even many) assist with Midular's state is a reasonable one and one that I am certain the Federation will acquiesce. At the same time, the Federation's desire to see to her best interests while they can and avoid further complication until she is at least stable is a reasonable one and one I am sure the Tribe can acquiesce.

Let us put aside our differences, knowing we misunderstand one another but also knowing we do not do so out of malice or contempt, and work together to hopefully keep the Ray of Matar shining for years to come.
Adreena Madeveda
Sebiestor Tribe
#71 - 2013-04-14 11:42:25 UTC
I guess that when people hear "let the Tribe decide", the word "tribe" instantly lead them to imagine us gathered, more or less naked, grunting more than we're talking and speaking a language that's half onomatopoeas and half clubbing one another on the head.

Our Tribe is composed of medics, mechanics, lawyers, engineers, soldiers, scientists, teachers, labourers ; we listen to our elders because they've lived and we trust our shamans because they know. Our way is old, but it's certainly not backward.

...................\o\ /o/...................
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#72 - 2013-04-14 15:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ava Starfire
Adreena Madeveda wrote:
I guess that when people hear "let the Tribe decide", the word "tribe" instantly lead them to imagine us gathered, more or less naked, grunting more than we're talking and speaking a language that's half onomatopoeas and half clubbing one another on the head.

Our Tribe is composed of medics, mechanics, lawyers, engineers, soldiers, scientists, teachers, labourers ; we listen to our elders because they've lived and we trust our shamans because they know. Our way is old, but it's certainly not backward.


I wish I could express things as well as others, much of the time. Especially when they say something like this, or what Elsebeth said above.

I may not agree with every decision the Tribe makes. They are still my kin, and I still love them. I will die for them, and they would do so for me, or for anyone else. Every Sebiestor is my kin.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#73 - 2013-04-14 17:25:34 UTC
Adreena Madeveda wrote:
Our Tribe is composed of medics, mechanics, lawyers, engineers, soldiers, scientists, teachers, labourers ; we listen to our elders because they've lived and we trust our shamans because they know. Our way is old, but it's certainly not backward.


Of course you're not backward, sweet pea. Societies of medics, mechanics, lawyers, engineers yada yada yada frequently invade allies when screaming doesn't get them what they want in five minutes.

Your Tribe is a problem, and its leader is down at a time when the Republic is realigning the relationships between its parts. You have reason to be anxious. Other Tribes may have grown tired of getting stuck with the short straw. What better excuse to diminish the despised Sebiestor rust elves than to shift all of the blame for friction with the Federation onto their pretty little shoulders?

Normally, of course, your gifted leader would be capable of deflecting such a gambit. Oh, dear.