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Miner Ganks
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Dave stark
#21 - 2013-04-14 09:45:35 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
I get that no where in EVE is it truely safe and all that crap bla bla bla

If you think this game is crap, then why are you playing it?


he didn't say it was, at least not in that quote.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#22 - 2013-04-14 09:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec?



Umm.... Beta?


When EVE was released, there was no CONCORD. Then there was Tankable CONCORD. Then Untankable CONCORD but Insurance payouts for gank ships remained. And now there's No insurance and the fastest responding, untankable, undelayable CONCORD EVE's ever seen.

If you're saying that these changes turned EVE into a ganker's paradise, maybe you want them rolled back?


Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Even aligning to gate, mining in .7 and above, being at the computer, D-scanning constantly you still run a better chance of dieing than not if you find your self chosen by a ganker.


Being aligned means that you will be in warp to the destination you were aligned to the server tick after you press the button. You don't have to be watching d-scan, just the overview to be safe because no matter what method, it takes longer than that to tackle or bump you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-04-14 10:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
I don't see how you even manage to get ganked. If a cheap warship enters the belt and begins closing the distance to you then you could just warp to that safe you were aligned to. As you where paying attention while mining and not alt tabbed on the forums when it happened.


This isn't what being aligned means, since you aren't travelling at warping speed and practically all of the align time in a barge or exhumer is in acceleration not turning. it won't help you.

On a general point, advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless. really if you're in a populous system you will need to fly something cheap like a retriever and play the odds or if you wish to fly something expensive then get the hell away from everyone. I mined for months in a yield maxed mackinaw by finding the least populated systems (usually without stations) with a decent refinery in range. one jump is quite bearable when you have a 35K ore bay. then just courier contract the minerals to a hub for next to nothing. plus you get largely untouched belts this way.

this is working from the basic theory that the wolves stay close to the sheep and it's true.

forums.  serious business.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#24 - 2013-04-14 10:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelique Duchemin
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless.


Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp.

I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis.

They are a skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant.


And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Dave stark
#25 - 2013-04-14 10:13:38 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless.


Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp.

I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis.

They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant.


And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV.


fact: sitting at the keyboard instead of making breafkast doesn't make you accelerate to warp faster.
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#26 - 2013-04-14 10:25:51 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless.


Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp.

I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis.

They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant.


And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV.


fact: sitting at the keyboard instead of making breafkast doesn't make you accelerate to warp faster.


No but it lets you warp off before the gankers reach you as you had the sense to not sit on the warp in point.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Dave stark
#27 - 2013-04-14 10:30:31 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
No but it lets you warp off before the gankers reach you as you had the sense to not sit on the warp in point.


i feel we could go back and forth all day with you making terrible points and me pointing out how terrible they are, but i can't be bothered.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#28 - 2013-04-14 10:30:34 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
fact: sitting at the keyboard instead of making breafkast doesn't make you accelerate to warp faster.

Fact: if you try to warp away when gankers land on grid, it is already too late [unless you insta-warp because you are aligned and webbed].

For reference, my Hulks take 17 seconds to warp without outside assistance / interference.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-04-14 10:30:53 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
advice given to miners by people who don't mine is pretty worthless.


Hey now let's not confuse the perverted activities you people do in high sec to actual mining. What you people do have about as much to do with mining as ratting has to do with pvp.

I have worked with actual miners and I guard miners on a weekly basis.

They are skittish race of critters that pack tank and they dock when going to the bathroom. They are so focused on their surroundings that they can barely pay attention to the mining itself. A sudden move or loud noise and they are gone in an instant.


And do not give me that bull about miners time to accelerate to warp speed. You do not get ganked because they catch you before reaching warp speed. They catch you because you activate the mining lasers and then go make breakfast or alt tab or watch TV.


get a stop watch and try it out. align times are comparable with CONCORD response times in 0.5 space whatever way you're pointing, but you don't mine so you don't know that, as i said.

also the fact that I can AFK quite safely in high with my advice should tell you that your plucky, non perverted miners are either enjoying their roleplay or wasting their time. the risk/reward and logistics difficulties make it unworthwhile.

forums.  serious business.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#30 - 2013-04-14 10:33:52 UTC
Ganking is basicly EvE with Easy-mode on. Why actually go looking for actual PvP targets elsewhere in the game, when you've got yourself unlimited risk-free targets floating around highsec, that don't shoot back? Better still, most of their targets are unwilling and/or uninterested in PvP, and thus are completely unprepaired for sudden ganking. As long as these gankers make sure their target is worth more than the cost of the ships used, they win. Then again, some of them do it just for the hell of it, or to make their pathetic killboards increase.

Worst of all, they all rant their highsec-hating rhetoric to justify their position. They've already made lowsec into a wasteland, and taught new players and carebears alike that traveling there is a death-sentence, and so now they've moved to highsec. As far as their concerned, their gameplay is the only gameplay, and everyone should conform to their opinion.

Though i won't go as far as saying that ganking should be impossible in highsec, i definately think it should be made harder and/or less profitable. Cause lets face it, these L33T PvPers wouldn't know real PvP if it came up and smacked them in the face with a fish. And ultimately their selfish actions prevent players natural progression out of highsec to other areas

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#31 - 2013-04-14 10:35:45 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec?

2006 I think; might have been 2007.
It was when the can flagging system was introduced. Up until that point Ore Theft (using a heavily expanded hauler) was the primary "danger" which miners had to deal with, suicide ganking was rare and generally focussed against known ore thieves or macro groups...
That's right, the majority of suicide ganks (at least within the sphere I was aware of at the time) were defending the miners and their profits.
Can flagging changed the dynamic however, and do you know who drove the development of that feature?

It was the miners.

Over the years since then the gankers have refined their techniques, developed new strategies and made it into a career. They've been "nerfed" several times (but have received buffs too).

Personally I feel that the barge buff went in the wrong direction, the tank levels are about right IMHO but the redesign should have enabled the fitting of tanks of that scale rather than building them into the hull - the gankers have always said "fit a tank" and most of those who listened to that sentiment (but not the specifics of deadspace boosters in highsec) seem to have fared relatively well out of it.
Dave stark
#32 - 2013-04-14 10:36:05 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
And ultimately their selfish actions prevent players natural progression out of highsec to other areas


do... do you actually believe this kind of nonsense, or are you trolling?
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#33 - 2013-04-14 10:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelique Duchemin
Xen Solarus wrote:
Though i won't go as far as saying that ganking should be impossible in highsec, i definately think it should be made harder and/or less profitable.


It's already not profitable. They do it because it's fun. They spend their own ISK on their cheap gank ships to blow you up for a laugh.

You remember fun, right? It's what we used to have before we made MMOs into a second job that we have to pay to perform.


If you want CCP to make ganking less fun then you're in for a rude awakening.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#34 - 2013-04-14 11:07:52 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
but can someone explain to me how/when eve became a gankers paradise in high sec?

2006 I think; might have been 2007.
It was when the can flagging system was introduced. Up until that point Ore Theft (using a heavily expanded hauler) was the primary "danger" which miners had to deal with, suicide ganking was rare and generally focussed against known ore thieves or macro groups...
That's right, the majority of suicide ganks (at least within the sphere I was aware of at the time) were defending the miners and their profits.
Can flagging changed the dynamic however, and do you know who drove the development of that feature?

It was the miners.

Over the years since then the gankers have refined their techniques, developed new strategies and made it into a career. They've been "nerfed" several times (but have received buffs too).

Personally I feel that the barge buff went in the wrong direction, the tank levels are about right IMHO but the redesign should have enabled the fitting of tanks of that scale rather than building them into the hull - the gankers have always said "fit a tank" and most of those who listened to that sentiment (but not the specifics of deadspace boosters in highsec) seem to have fared relatively well out of it.


I was around mining when they made that change, it was NOT the change miners were asking for. They wanted a way to protect their ore that they had mined from ore thieves so what did ccp do? introduce the flagging system so that unarmed mining vessels could shoot at ore thievesRoll that made the whole situation worse. The only players on the forums that praised that new system were the ore thieves themselves because now they had a way of ganking miners without concord getting involved.

All they had to do was make secure anchorable containers capable of holding more than a packet of peanuts and the problem would have been solved.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-04-14 11:19:56 UTC
OP needs some cheeze with his whine.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-04-14 11:26:34 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Personally I feel that the barge buff went in the wrong direction, the tank levels are about right IMHO but the redesign should have enabled the fitting of tanks of that scale rather than building them into the hull - the gankers have always said "fit a tank" and most of those who listened to that sentiment (but not the specifics of deadspace boosters in highsec) seem to have fared relatively well out of it.


what i found is that gankers shifted to ship scanning more after the changes and use multiple alts if required. Tanking may help if other players in system are untanked but if they want to get you they will because gankers aren't necessarily rational (in the sense that they're calculating profit). I've had a close call in a fairly well tanked Mackinaw versus two catalysts so while the tank obviously saved me it was no deterrent and I only survived because of the ganker's miscalculation (he tried to warp his third alt in but CONCORD popped him on arrival)

forums.  serious business.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-04-14 11:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Get logi support, learn how to tank, stop farting around AFK ... imagine that. Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Josef Djugashvilis
#38 - 2013-04-14 11:32:25 UTC
OP is a troll, and a poor one at that.

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#39 - 2013-04-14 11:35:24 UTC
Andski wrote:
eve isn't fair, deal with it


So you no longer want production facilities in null to be as good as, or better than those in hi-sec, as 'eve isn't fair, deal with it'?

This is not a signature.
Dave stark
#40 - 2013-04-14 11:44:20 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Andski wrote:
eve isn't fair, deal with it


So you no longer want production facilities in null to be as good as, or better than those in hi-sec, as 'eve isn't fair, deal with it'?


there's a difference between fair, and balanced.