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Why is Gist large/x-large shield booster so much better than Pith ?
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sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-13 22:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Gist medium is cheaper than pith medium, while sharing the exact same balance as large and xl. Price = supply and demand.

170 mil XL Pith A type + cap booster = all the tank you'll ever need.
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-04-13 23:11:16 UTC
I am just peeved that after creaming myself getting a Pith A drop the realization that it is worthless compared to Gist A, which is of the same difficulty in terms of procurement. Q.Q
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-04-13 23:20:54 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
I should clarify; why does a Gist A sell for 900 mill and drops from Angels rally point while the Pith A sells for 175 mill and drops from a Guristas rally point. Same slot and fitting, swap missiles for lasers, kinetic for EM and they're the same thing, except one is worth 6 times more because it is that much better than the other via double capacitor need for an extra 160 shields.


Players set the price, not CCP.

From my point of view: Gist Large/XL are for the lazy; Pith are for those who are willing to do a bit of micro managing in order to save hundreds of millions of ISK

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-04-13 23:21:47 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
I am just peeved that after creaming myself getting a Pith A drop the realization that it is worthless compared to Gist A, which is of the same difficulty in terms of procurement. Q.Q


So you got the large. The guy that got the medium get more isk. Whenever you have 2 things, one of them is going to cost more/less than the other.
Katsami
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#25 - 2013-04-14 01:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsami
Kasutra wrote:
Due to the number of mentions of Gist boosters being for uninformed carebear hisec noobs trying to permatank, I'd like to point out that going for cap-efficient modules doesn't necessarily mean you're going for a slot-inefficient permatank. It might mean you're trying to get away with fewer cap mods (even down to none) without dropping below minimum acceptable tank.


The ideal is to not use cap mods at all and instead roll with heavier injecting boosters [Pith] for burst tanking.

L4s aren't anywhere close to scary enough to require a stable tank. Gist types are expensive crutches that don't increase your hourly income.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#26 - 2013-04-14 03:01:26 UTC
Katsami wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Due to the number of mentions of Gist boosters being for uninformed carebear hisec noobs trying to permatank, I'd like to point out that going for cap-efficient modules doesn't necessarily mean you're going for a slot-inefficient permatank. It might mean you're trying to get away with fewer cap mods (even down to none) without dropping below minimum acceptable tank.


The ideal is to not use cap mods at all and instead roll with heavier injecting boosters [Pith] for burst tanking.

L4s aren't anywhere close to scary enough to require a stable tank. Gist types are expensive crutches that don't increase your hourly income.


This.
Sure its more efficient, but Pith + heavy cap booster is all you'll ever need, and the small amount of extra performance you get from running a Gist with no cap mods and 1 extra damage application midslot is rarely worth the huge price increase as then you'll have to do thousands of l4s just to breakeven.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#27 - 2013-04-14 12:45:44 UTC
Katsami wrote:
Kasutra wrote:
Due to the number of mentions of Gist boosters being for uninformed carebear hisec noobs trying to permatank, I'd like to point out that going for cap-efficient modules doesn't necessarily mean you're going for a slot-inefficient permatank. It might mean you're trying to get away with fewer cap mods (even down to none) without dropping below minimum acceptable tank.


The ideal is to not use cap mods at all and instead roll with heavier injecting boosters [Pith] for burst tanking.

L4s aren't anywhere close to scary enough to require a stable tank. Gist types are expensive crutches that don't increase your hourly income.

We're trying to reach the same optimal conclusion here, the one of getting away without cap mods, but you still seem to think Gist boosters mean stable tanking.

Gist boosters being cap efficient means you get more shield HP out of the cap you had at the start of the mission, which means you're more likely to not need cap mods. So if you do not need the increased burst tank the Pith offers (it's not like a full-running Gist booster is a slouch), a Gist is more likely to get you through the mission without fitting additional cap mods.

Dato Koppla wrote:
This.
Sure its more efficient, but Pith + heavy cap booster is all you'll ever need, and the small amount of extra performance you get from running a Gist with no cap mods and 1 extra damage application midslot is rarely worth the huge price increase as then you'll have to do thousands of l4s just to breakeven.

But you do agree, then, that there is a niche for Gist boosters among heavy mission runners other than permatanking?
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#28 - 2013-04-14 13:06:23 UTC
Kasutra wrote:


Dato Koppla wrote:
This.
Sure its more efficient, but Pith + heavy cap booster is all you'll ever need, and the small amount of extra performance you get from running a Gist with no cap mods and 1 extra damage application midslot is rarely worth the huge price increase as then you'll have to do thousands of l4s just to breakeven.

But you do agree, then, that there is a niche for Gist boosters among heavy mission runners other than permatanking?


Yes, if the niche is doubling the price of your ship for 1 extra mid that won't even reduce your mission completion time by a minute but instead make you earn nothing your first 30 missions.

However I do confess that some ships like the Golem will benefit alot by having an additional mid, but this is extremely niche and frankly the Golem isn't that good a mission number because of lack of range, volley counting and tp juggle issues.

What I'm getting is that yes, there is a niche for Gist boosters, but it is not that niche that is the reason for the high price on Gist boosters, it's the permatankers.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#29 - 2013-04-14 13:16:53 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Yes, if the niche is doubling the price of your ship for 1 extra mid that won't even reduce your mission completion time by a minute but instead make you earn nothing your first 30 missions.

However I do confess that some ships like the Golem will benefit alot by having an additional mid, but this is extremely niche and frankly the Golem isn't that good a mission number because of lack of range, volley counting and tp juggle issues.

What I'm getting is that yes, there is a niche for Gist boosters, but it is not that niche that is the reason for the high price on Gist boosters, it's the permatankers.

I can accept that.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#30 - 2013-04-14 15:03:09 UTC
Kasutra wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Yes, if the niche is doubling the price of your ship for 1 extra mid that won't even reduce your mission completion time by a minute but instead make you earn nothing your first 30 missions.

However I do confess that some ships like the Golem will benefit alot by having an additional mid, but this is extremely niche and frankly the Golem isn't that good a mission number because of lack of range, volley counting and tp juggle issues.

What I'm getting is that yes, there is a niche for Gist boosters, but it is not that niche that is the reason for the high price on Gist boosters, it's the permatankers.

I can accept that.


That's fair, you had a point that there is a niche for them. On a sidenote, deadspace shield boosters in general are too good, in comparison deadspace armor reppers are far behind.
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-04-14 18:43:42 UTC
Escalation #2 also dropped Pith A booster. Walked away disappointed.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-04-14 19:15:25 UTC
gist is preffered for pve and theres more players using the mods (that can afford them by nature) than there are using for pvp - pith are generally better in pvp because they burst more and pvp ships usually have cap boosters with their active tanks while pvers try to avoid it since they tank for 5 minutes as a minimum so prefer recharge over finite number charges.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2013-04-15 01:08:54 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Pfft. Tank goes in the high slots!


Toll!!! your NM has a faction tank in its mids Blink
Kristoffon Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-04-15 01:42:04 UTC
Maybe the OP should move to a different part of the galaxy and try to supply the demand for gist boosters instead of whining that what he has in his backyard isn;t good enough,
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-04-15 02:09:10 UTC
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:
Maybe the OP should move to a different part of the galaxy and try to supply the demand for gist boosters instead of whining that what he has in his backyard isn;t good enough,


In the current economy? Preposterous! Why my piggy bank would be torn asunder by the mere hinting of relocation. No, the current market does not allow for moves in to unfamiliar territory without a dozen piggy banks filled to the brim.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#36 - 2013-04-15 02:30:37 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
Escalation #2 also dropped Pith A booster. Walked away disappointed.



May you get nothing but Overseers Effects for the rest of your Eve career for not being happy to get anything at all.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#37 - 2013-04-15 02:47:06 UTC
Quote:
I should clarify; why does a Gist A sell for 900 mill and drops from Angels rally point while the Pith A sells for 175 mill and drops from a Guristas rally point. Same slot and fitting, swap missiles for lasers, kinetic for EM and they're the same thing, except one is worth 6 times more because it is that much better than the other via double capacitor need for an extra 160 shields.


I don't think you fully comprehend just how BAD the cap drain difference is. The sole reason the Gist X-Type is so damn exp is it has CONSIDERABLY less cap drain, and let me tell you these things suck your cap dry fast. Nearly every player who runs a XL Booster has to ALSO fit a Cap Booster taking another valuable slot. So, if you can afford the Gist, you get to "maybe" save 1 slot from getting the Cap Booster. If you don't have the ISK, then choose Pith and you WILL be using a Cap Booster (unless a 2 minute cap is ok with you even with 3-T2 Cap Safeguard Rigs). THIS is the reason for the price difference, it has NOTHING to do with one booster pushing out XXX more Shield HP per boost.

And you also fail to realize just how much a difference "only 200 HP/cycle" can be when a person is running full HG Crystals and receiving the Shield gang mod boost from a person with the T2 Siege Imp in their head. It turns that kinda meh shield booster into a goddamn monster of a tank.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-04-15 05:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Paikis wrote:
Pfft. Tank goes in the high slots!



And this is why I love the Vindi. If at first you don't succeed, bring a bigger hammer Twisted
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#39 - 2013-04-15 08:20:23 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Pfft. Tank goes in the high slots!


Toll!!! your NM has a faction tank in its mids Blink


No it doesn't :)

Although I am considering upgrading my T2 resist mods to deadspace... I simply don't use the booster/cap booster often enough. T2 is enough.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2013-04-15 10:05:46 UTC
DeLindsay wrote:
Quote:
I should clarify; why does a Gist A sell for 900 mill and drops from Angels rally point while the Pith A sells for 175 mill and drops from a Guristas rally point. Same slot and fitting, swap missiles for lasers, kinetic for EM and they're the same thing, except one is worth 6 times more because it is that much better than the other via double capacitor need for an extra 160 shields.


I don't think you fully comprehend just how BAD the cap drain difference is. The sole reason the Gist X-Type is so damn exp is it has CONSIDERABLY less cap drain, and let me tell you these things suck your cap dry fast. Nearly every player who runs a XL Booster has to ALSO fit a Cap Booster taking another valuable slot. So, if you can afford the Gist, you get to "maybe" save 1 slot from getting the Cap Booster. If you don't have the ISK, then choose Pith and you WILL be using a Cap Booster (unless a 2 minute cap is ok with you even with 3-T2 Cap Safeguard Rigs). THIS is the reason for the price difference, it has NOTHING to do with one booster pushing out XXX more Shield HP per boost.

And you also fail to realize just how much a difference "only 200 HP/cycle" can be when a person is running full HG Crystals and receiving the Shield gang mod boost from a person with the T2 Siege Imp in their head. It turns that kinda meh shield booster into a goddamn monster of a tank.


I used to have this problem but then I found out that you can switch the booster off for a while

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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