EVE General Discussion

At some point the banking will lead to prices of materials rising. Then the price will rise so high that it becomes worth risking a Hulk or Mackinaw to harvest ice. This will not encourage hisec mining, since harvesting ice in null sec is far safer: your alliance is already controlling who is in that system, and you have the option of shooting first.

So for the moment, the price of oxytopes will rise, the ROI of harvesting ice in Gallente space will drop, and three gankers will continue to be enough to lock down a hisec system.

Would the ice interdiction be stopped if the costs of sustained ganking rose by an order of magnitude? Would opportunistic suicide ganking of freighters be stopped if the costs of sustained ganking rose by an order of magnitude?

Consider the cost of interdicting all mining activities in a null sec system: one AFK capsuleer flying a cloaky ship of any variety (though ideally a covert ops or recon with a covert cyno). The hisec interdiction is effectively the same thing, though hisec denizens do not have the same tools available to defend against the interdiction: the only options are to declare war against the parties involved (which won't work since they'll just hop corps or flood the system with a thousand corp mates), or move out. Ganking the interdiction fleet will not help since they effectively have unlimited funds, there is no way of preventing them keeping a medical clone in the same system, and there is no way of preventing them from importing all the resources they need to continue the process.

What it then boils down to is time. The interdiction is a numbers game, currently biased quite heavily in favour of the interdictors. To maintain an interdiction of a system should require more than three pilots. Working on the time factor should help in some ways: perhaps GCCs in hisec could be extended where a pilot incurs more than one GCC in a 24 hour period? Say, a doubling for every offence within 24 hours of a previous one, with the timer halving for every 24 hour period since the last offence, with a floor at 15 minutes? This could quickly lead to the situation of the interdiction requiring the involvement of more pilots, costing more player time. The quick remedies would be to move more alts from the same account into the system: this would maintain a stable state at 12 hours of GCC for each character, assuming each character was used to gank as soon as possible after the last attempt.

Having suicide ganks incur a faction standing hit might have some benefit: say a faction standing hit of 10% for each unlawful aggression in a faction's space. Thus a sustained ganking programme will end up with faction navies attacking the ganker. This will not impact too severely on opportunistic suicide gankers, they will have ample opportunity to restore their faction standings through storyline missions.

I don't believe that "buffing" CONCORD will have any impact, since gankers will simply adjust to kill the target before CONCORD arrives. Buffing faction navies might help to some degree, especially if suicide ganks incur a faction standing hit.

In the meantime, the system is as it is. It's up to the players to adapt to the game being played by other players. Goonswarm is creating content & drama, which is a good thing. I think they have it too easy though.

Most people are ganked in Hisec at least once; I base this off of eye-witness "Testimony" and seeing it first hand many times; Especially in Hek.

As I said in another thread, the miners and mission runners that you despise so much make up the majority of the players, so your 'HTFU or GTFO' comment is a little naive, as you'd soon get very bored with noone to shoot and a game that is no longer financially viable to develop any further. Ironically, this means that the gankers are parasites, living off the efforts of their hosts. A perfectly acceptable game mechanic, but please don't cry when CCP try not to let you kill their game by driving the majority of the players away.

The 'hard core' players don't get the 'game' concept as much as the PvE players don't get the 'gank' concept. The hard core players are either trying to win at a MMO (well, DUH!) or trying to make RL money out of it, whilst everyone else is just playing a game:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming

Yeah, it does matter what alliance (or even the corp in the alliance) policies are, but if you know what you want, it shouldn't be an issue finding a home that fits your needs / wants. I can't speak for Goon Indy Policies or even my own corp's (not sure we have any at the moment, lol) since I haven't mined since WIDot became WICorp and joined Goons, but... WIDot had a few programs for buying minerals and in some cases the corps had programs as well (my former home, SSRG, did) and the prices for buying minerals were close to Jita prices, so it was a good deal. From what I've seen though, as long as you're not selling Super Caps outside Alliance and friends, we don't much care what you do with that ore once you've mined it. I could, of course, be wrong, but I've seen nothing that states otherwise during my time with Goons and WICorp.

Feel free to back up your claim that the majority of EVE´s players are highsec hugging carebears that only do missions and mining and nothing else.
If you do not have the numbers stfu.

Written in the books.

Reason some alliances treat miners like crap is because a lot of miners expect to be treated like gods. Your post even hints on it. Mining ops for example if done 1-2 times a week aren't a big deal even if they are free. The corp/alliance generally has bills, upkeep costs, and needs financial backing to protect the space you mine in. For combat pilots you generally end up losing some isk even with corp/alliance reimbursements and are put under heavier CTAs and loss potential. Where as miners are generally not used for CTAs unless its a serious thing, which if you wanted to continue your mining operation you would want to help out. Also miners generally have a low operational cost if you know what you are doing and don't die a lot.

That was one of the biggest issues I had when running a nullsec corp and helping with alliance crap. It was always the miners bitching. Refine Tax was too high(5%), Corp buyback was to low, Weekly mining ops should be split more, so and so is mining all the highends right after downtime, etc. PVP pilots where easy. Give them time to chill and rat and make sure they got their reimbursements in a timely matter and they didn't say ****.

Well, that's all well and good until they (a) get ganked on the first null sec gate they jump through because the invite to null sec was just a scam oriented towards padding out kill boards, or (b) are ejected from the alliance due to not participating in CTAs, never sending defence fleets, and not having appropriate numbers of kills per month. Being part of a renter alliance simply means that you're a target who your landlord is not shooting yet.

Of course, if you are recruiting, go ahead and post a link to your recruitment post in the EVE Online recruitment forums or your alliance's own external site. If you're not recruiting, I would suggest that you are commenting based on hearsay and are not actually aware of who is doing the mining or where the minerals are actually coming from.

In the meantime, the safest assumption for an industrialist to make is that any invitation by a null sec alliance to come out to null sec and "do industry" is a scam, and will inevitably involve people who are blue to you shooting you for giggles (especially if they're talking billion-ISK-a-month rentals to be paid in advance). The greatest obstacle to "doing industry" in null sec is the people who live in null sec. There are people who do industrial stuff in null sec. Many of them burn out after a few months due to "little red hen syndrome", but they were people who were part of the alliance and started manufacturing or mining while they were out there. Eventually they log in one night and realise that they've been busy running jump freighters from Jita, managing assembly lines and stocking markets for three months and haven't actually had any fun. It usually comes to a head when someone makes demands along the lines of, "why do these frelling scourge missiles cost so much? I insist that items sold in null sec cost at most 10 percent higher than Jita!"

Anyone who seriously does any kind of industry in null sec has rocks in their head, or has serious dependency issues.

Funny how you are turning this anti-Goons, by implying that corp recruitment scamming is common, and its your first point. You can generally take 5-10min to realize if a corporation offer is legit or scam. The same way that most corporations will take the extra couple minutes to check your background you should do the same. If you are ejected due to lack of participation then you probably didn't do **** within that group. Which would make sense. This is a MMO after all if you want to play single player spaceships go get X3 or Freelancer. Add to the fact that corporations are generally made to work together, not I want everything handed to me, but I don't want to actually do anything in return.

I'll go PVP

as soon as they fix the ******** mechanics for it.

and yes I have tried to PVP before, I got bored one day of mining and missioning on some of my accounts, and seeing as I had an ample amount of SP (15mil) on my combat account, I decided to give it a go, so I fitted what I could afford (and lose) easily and headed for the first low-sec pool.

I went through about 6 different systems before I found somebody, but when I did, it was a lone stabber, I thought i could take it relatively easily, and for the greater portion of the time I was winning while trading blows like knights.

and then.

I saw a cyno appear on scanner

the bastard had a friend come reinforce him and pop a cyno so that he could jump in not 1, not 2, not even 3, but 5 Super Capitals, what was a winning endeavor turned into pure dread as many things ran through my mind on as to WHY would you field 5 super capitals in a tiny 1vs1 clash.

Needless to say I was popped by about a billion drones, missiles and various other stupid things. podded shortly after I tried to run.

Made it my word that until this stupid mechanic is fixed, I'm not gonna step in that cesspool you call Null-Sec, cause I'm gonna assume that instead of super capitals its Titans.(and politics, i hate politics)

The upcoming Super-cap Nerf, MIGHT incline me to go, but thats huge might.

(and yes, I have been tried to be ganked before in high-sec, but my Hulk is fitted with a 'go away' tank, needless to say my system is very low visit rating, almost nobody ever comes into it, so I can usually mine in peace)