Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I don't understand how this helps at all?

You removed the 50% reducing bonus from the ships, and give us a built in 10-20% reduction?

why is everyone cheering?

These ships had cap issues with a 50% reduction...

These ships sucked when they had 5%/per lvl resists vs 4%/per lvl resist...

These ships sucked because of the still blairing and obvious flaw with active armor tanking, even vs active shield tanking...

I'm not tryin to be inflamatory, but can someone explain to me what your happy about?

I'm willing to bet if CCP imposed a new rule that you couldnt cross train into other races, so you had to pick only 1 races ships to fly, and current players could choose and get their other SP reimbursed.... not a single person whos been playing enough to understand the games mechanics would be flying an amarr ship.

with all level 5 skills

T2 1400's on the new Mael use 98% of the grid, leaving 510 pg to do something with.

The new T2 Tachs on the new Abaddon use 102% of the grid, leaving -480 pg with.

Now which of these 2 ships needs a cap booster to be effective in PvP? And which one needs a fitting mod to even make a sniper fit possible? So which one just lost 2 slots, or a slot and a rig where the other has way more options?

Now a T2 Armor Repper needs 2070 pg and you need 2 to be competitive versus a active shield tank and another cap booster if you want to actually run an active tank, oh and another fitting mod.

A T2 Shield Booster takes 550 pg, you can use a PDS which helps your tank more, vs a RC or rig.

If you want to make a fitting mod that boosts Armor tanking in some direct way I won't complain.

Oh and we are losing a good chunk or our resist bonus because RR is overpowered, and they can't easily fix that so they are balancing off the resist bonus instead.

Now if your talking buffer fits its a little different but you still are using fitting mods and required cap mods on an Amarr ship when you don't have to waste any of that space for the Minmatar one. And you can't tell me Tachyons are great compared to 1400s because which ones are being used on Amarr ships right now with the current Alpha and RR meta? The 1400s that's right.

why we cheer is because we saw the post where fozzie said ther was TOO MUCH negative response and they will not be changed. now, they r looking at the reduction in cpu and cap to boot, so amarr ships will be getting a boost (even slightly)

Buzzmong wrote:
I disagree with this change Fozzie and Rise.

Lasers were meant to be more powerful on the DPS front, have instant ammo change and have great optimal to go with that, but have large trade offs via near non existant falloff and okish tracking and being demanding on the cap and pg.

originally, they did TONS of damage. now, they are marginalized. if they still did TONS of damage, then i wouldnt gripe about the cap consumption. the tons of damage went away YEARS ago, but the cap draw and grid drain did not. we got a tracking boost to megapulse years back, but that doesnt make up for marginal weapon damage at 10x the cap of everything it seems.
and we do go through tech 2 crystals alot. the t1's are useless except for faction.
now if you can explain to me how t2 crystals affect tracking and make conflag almost obsolite to my satisfaction, i will leave this whole conversation alone.
the "laser" aims the beam, the crystal focuses it for range and damage. how can changing a crystal (the range part) affect the aiming (tracking part)?
lets compare it to guns. if i have a descent flat nose bullet, i get marginal accuracy. i accept this (as i was a navy weapon instructor). i loose a little accuracy for sheer impact. if i switch to boattails or spitzers, i get exceptional accuracy, but not alot of impact due to it slicing through the target. the ammount of accuracy doesnt vary by much due to bullets, but it will vary alot of i slew my weapon incorrectly.

in a nut shell, the tracking penalty on the t2 crystals is horrid. WAY too much. it brings damage down alot when one cannot hit its target. as i stated in another post, i was sitting at a pos with my paladin. i had conflag and was shredding. then i missed. and missed again. i cant imagine a scenario where a ship, sitting still, shooting at a station that was sitting still, could miss. did someone spill coffee on the console or something causing the gunner to hit the controls?
make conflag pull more power or something. but tracking? it doesnt work...
ccp has been focused on bringin everyone else up and they forgot about energy weapons. they were gimped in the begining, then gimped again. now, they semi work, but can be tweaked to work well. you give a little, then take alot. with standard crystals, we get low damage. descent accuracy, but low damage. with t2, we get good damage, but poor tracking which equated to low damage. i would be happy with tracking if the crystals actually did better damage. not "more" than everyone else, just competitive damage. we were giving conflag with tis 24/24, but then gimped with massive tracking penalty. some times it hits well, sometimes it does not.
another thing, allow us to choose between high thermal damage or high em damage. an EMP is an emmited signal just like a laser. the laser does more thermal than em (refernece surgerical lasers). i think its kewl we do em/thermal. what else would we do. but i think it should be varied between the 2 depending on crystal. and loose the tracking penalty.

if we should be penalized all that energy, then give us our damage back (from the old days).
if we are going to loose the cap bonus from the ship, give us our damage back so we can make the best of the 3 shots we get.
we cannot control range as was brilliantly stated in another post due to low mid slots. thats why we received the great range bonus and the abiility to change ranges instantly that everyone throws in our faces. we "used" to dish out the pain, but it was dumbed down when other wepons couldnt keep up. then minie got a buff and last year, the hybrids got reworked. we get toned down and everyone else gets brought up. but we still are paying for it in cap consumption and grid requirements and low t1 dps output. we still cant control range like any other race. we are not mobile. we dont have the tracking as other weapons. we dont have the damage of other weapons. and now, you are talking about taking away the cap bonus per ship level AND someone griped about ccp reducing grid and cap costs to help us out?
sounds like that someone is just wanting to keep amarr ships as easy targets and he doesnt actually fly them to know what he is talking about.
i think they call that trollin?

anyway, the damage for t1 crystals, especially at range. its horrid. 179 dps with 7 tachyons and radio? at how much cap draw per tachyon? yeah..thats what i thought. its balanced.
beter yet, why dont we say its OP. at max range from the apoc, radio is like shining a flashlight on our target..

You could make a script for the Micro Jump Drive that, for the duration of the module, doesn't jump and reduces the ship's mass by 80%. That gives a battleship the ability to reduce its mass to 20m kg and with the micro jump drive's built in timer you can only use it once every 3 minutes.

Both of them


Both of them



Mega pulse lasers actually

where i fail to grasp whats being said is,
you guys are compairing a weapon system that fits on a ship (1400's) vs a weapons system that does not (tachyons).
they have equal dps. one a higher alpha, the other rapid fire.

only problem is, without using any other mods, the mael can fit a rack of 1400's
amarr bs's cannot for a rack of tach's.

so if you are going to compare, use the mega beam. now we are WAY low on damage. we can fit 8 beams.
cant fit 8 tachyons.
if they were xl weapons, they would fit on a dread and not my apoc.
if you guys are so worried that amarr has all these long range guns and you dont, maybe we need to get rid of 1 beam setup and adjust the other for balance.

Silly how Tachs and Mega Beams use 4 - 5 times the ammount of cap than the largest BS railguns ingame. On top, PG needs are excessive, and 2 out of 3 Amarr BS don't have any significant advantage of GJ/sec over BS's of other races (only the APOC is different with ~ 7 GJ/s more), although they are the cap-hungriest BS's ingame.

This isn't just somehow flawed - it is way off.

Try to work out a decent Amarr fit with not perfect skills, and you will see that something is wrong just by looking at PG needs and cap-consumption.

Not sure how to solve that, as the whole weapon system is incredibly broken, but imho you'd need to cut cap-consumption by half atleast.

Buffing Beams? YES SIR!

Only battleship size?

I can finally use beam lasers without people looking at me like I'm crazy. On the other hand, medium beams also could use more love. Not a dramatic change like the large, but maybe a -10% thrown here and there...

C'mon, scorch is several orders of magnitude more powerful and noone specializes in beams unless they do sniping fleets (and arti is usually a better choice in that role) so throw smaller beam users a helping bone. I want to fit medium beams on my Harbinger and finally feel like i can compete with the minmatars in terms of long-range damage. (yes, I know crystals give me more range leeway, but they have alpha and cap use up their sleeve)

Not enough with the battleship guns. Currently the massive cap need for these guns is keeping amarr battleships from being used again. Amarr already suffer from having completely predictable and easy to tank damage types ("they are forming a-hacs? just tank em/thermal, gg we win").

But the battleship guns cap need almost make amarr concepts unviable. I know that a lot of people have always mentioned how the amarr are at a disadvantage because most of their ships are missing a bonus (10% reduction in cap need for guns, where instead they could have a useful bonus like every other ship in every other race). The truth of the matter is, you just can't run an Amarr concept without that bonus, unless you make serious fitting decisions to reduce the cap need of your guns.

The most popular amarr concepts of the past 3 years have been Zealots, Abaddons, and Armageddons. Zealots and Armageddons both get a -10% reduction in cap need for guns, and even then, I can tell you from personal experience that the Armageddon still ran out of cap boosters quite quickly in any fight lasting longer than 5-10 minutes. Then you have the Abaddon, for which the most successful iteration of this concept had to use TWO TECH 2 RIGS just to make the guns cap need managable, and make the ship last more than 5 minutes.

[Abaddon, PL hellcat]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Anti-EM Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II



Without the rigs, the Abaddon just eats through cap boosters in 5 minutes or less, turning the abaddon into a small gang ship at best. There are times when the ship would work without the two gun rigs, but usually it was just because alliances or FC's were using it inefficiently and not firing their guns all the time.

The fact of the matter is, there is a huge upswing in cap need for all BS sized modules compared to cruiser sized modules. Look at the difference between a 10mn microwarp drive and 100mn micro warpdrive. The 10mn MWD takes 13.5 cap per second, while the 100mn MWD takes 54.1 cap per second. Most BS get double the cap recharge rate of their cruiser cousins, but many BS modules take 3-5x the amount of cap as cruiser modules.

The main point is, the abaddon shouldn't need two rigs dedicated to reducing their gun's cap need just to last more than 5 minutes in a battle (including cap boosters). It's terribly unbalanced and it's part of the reason people have stopped using hellcats.

nice to see lasers getting some attention .. now how about the other weapon systems from top to bottom?

How about having a discussion at your round table about projectiles using cap? pretty please :P