These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rukhsana Uxor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1761 - 2013-04-13 09:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rukhsana Uxor
Throktar wrote:
Megathron Loses a high, loses ehp, loses 50m3 of drone bandwidth and bay, in exchange for 7 ms a sec, and the ROF bonus change. I know it gets another low, but if you lose 2 heavy drones, you have to make your new low a mag stab just to even out with the same dps you just lost. This just doesn't get me excited at all. At the minimum can we have 25m3 of drone bw and bay back please?

CCP Rise, I really liked that 5th mid slot you added, I just wish you would have left that and given the utility high back to make it a 7/5/7 fit with minimum 100m3 drone bw and bay.


If I am wrong about any of this please respectfully point it out and tell me why.

RoF bonus better than damage bonus, you know it right? DPS will not change a lot but we will have extra low for tank\TE\Magstab or ECCM.

With new layouts Mega is good fleet ship. Dont ruin it :)
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#1762 - 2013-04-13 11:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ExAstra
William R Blake wrote:
Johnny Aideron wrote:
CCP have you considered swapping the roles between the Hyperion and Megathron for aesthetic and symbolic reasons? The relatively sleek looking Hyperion seems much more fitting as an attack battleship, while the Megathron looks more like a lumbering behemoth that would go toe to toe with an Abbadon.

An alternative:

Megathron: combat battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% tracking per level
7500 / 8000 / 8500
more capacitor, reduction in speed and agility, more CPU
slot: 8/4/7, 7 turrets
dronebay 125/150

It becomes a fleet brawler with more inbuilt ehp instead of an 8th low (no more jealous amarrians!) or versatile small gang BS with drones and utility high. Fits aesthetically with it's large bulk and visible dronebay.

Hyperion: attack battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% reps per level
6300/ 6500 / 7500
increase in speed and agility, stats adjusted (nerfed) to attack role
slot: 8/5/6, 8 turrets
dronebay 75/75

Yes, give them both a rate if fire bonus! It offsets the low amount of lowslots. With an increase in speed and the retention of it's 5th mid slot, the Hyperion can be fitted as an agile shield ganker or fast active armour tanker, using nano pump rigs rather than the trimarks that would cause the Megathron to perform poorly as a fast BS. It doesn't end up wasting a hull bonus in fleet fights it isn't designed for and remains the small scale ganker/tanker it is clearly meant to be. It looks more the part, since it's kinda like a larger Thorax aesthetically and in terms of being fast for it's class and being able to both shield and armour tank.

You could even just give Gallente three combat battleships.


Please CCP listen to this guy, hes got EVERYTHING right, the aesthetic, the slots layout. If u think about it, Hyperion even got the High velocity helmsman for the recommended cert training which means ; its an attack ship! Please i beg u CCP , Please do it like Johnny Aideron said!

Just going to throw my two cents in here and say that this DOES look like a good idea. Although I'm a bit concerned about the cap draw of a dual rep 8 turret Hyperion.

Side note (edit) I think the current Hyperion would be viable for the attack role as is and doesn't really need to go back to 8 turrets or get the drone nerf? I think the 7/4/8 Mega is fine too. I guess I didn't read this all the way through and was thinking more along the lines of "Let's switch the roles of the Mega and Hype".

Save the drones!
Rukhsana Uxor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1763 - 2013-04-13 11:27:11 UTC
ExAstra wrote:

Just going to throw my two cents in here and say that this DOES look like a good idea. Although I'm a bit concerned about the cap draw of a dual rep 8 turret Hyperion.

Fleet ships realy dont need high utility slot. So Mega wuth 7-4-8 very cool.
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#1764 - 2013-04-13 11:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Aideron
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:

With new layouts Mega is good fleet ship. Dont ruin it :)


But does it make sense to be taking an attack battleship and then slapping on so many plates and trimarks that it can compete with an Abbadon in fleet brawling? It's a conceptual flaw in making the Megathron an attack battleship with ehp nerfs and agility buffs that are going to be ignored in favour of plating it anyway.
Rukhsana Uxor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1765 - 2013-04-13 11:42:54 UTC
Johnny Aideron wrote:
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:

With new layouts Mega is good fleet ship. Dont ruin it :)


But does it make sense to be taking an attack battleship and then slapping on so many plates and trimarks that it can compete with an Abbadon in fleet brawling? It's a conceptual flaw in making the Megathron an attack battleship with ehp nerfs and agility buffs that are going to be ignored in favour of plating it anyway.

CCP give you 1 more low slot to better variations. You can fit TE or 3 stabs or ECCM. You are not forcing to fit tank in all 8 low slots. With 1 TE and 2 TC mega have ~60 range with blaters. Its like Rokh.

Gallent need fleet ship.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1766 - 2013-04-13 11:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Everyone trying to turn the hyperion back to what it was before, or asking for the utility high to be returned on the megathron are bad and should feel bad.

Never has there been a clearer differentiation between these two ships and similar ships in different roles.

More work on the domi needed I think:

Consider... The New Armageddon and Scorpion could be thought of as distruption ships with ewar bonuses and a reduction of a slot.

The Doninix on the other hand, doesn't have an ewar bonus. Perhaps this justification could be used to provide it with an additional high slot, turret slot and grid with the current set of bonuses intact?

This would allow an extra drone link to go along with sentry drone bonuses. Either-way, I don't think it's actually evolved much from the tier 1 bs it was, and provides an awkward set of features leave a little to be desired.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#1767 - 2013-04-13 11:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Aideron
My concern with these ships is that they will succeed insofar as they have created viable pvp options, but in a manner that isn't true to the aesthetics and theme of these BS. I'm sure shield tanking artillery/neut domis, Hyperions with 6 turrets and agile "attack" megathrons weighed down with triple 1600 plates are all technically good, I see the advantages of them, I just don't like them and consider them to be a cop-out compared to making the classic conceptions of these ships good again.
William R Blake
We Did A Thing
Probably Up to No Good
#1768 - 2013-04-13 12:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: William R Blake
Johnny Aideron wrote:
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:

With new layouts Mega is good fleet ship. Dont ruin it :)


But does it make sense to be taking an attack battleship and then slapping on so many plates and trimarks that it can compete with an Abbadon in fleet brawling? It's a conceptual flaw in making the Megathron an attack battleship with ehp nerfs and agility buffs that are going to be ignored in favour of plating it anyway.



This is what my thought exactly, its like trying to compete with Abaddon but less efficient (since the built in EHP does not compare with Abaddon) !!

Gallente need competitive fleet ship badly.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1769 - 2013-04-13 12:52:15 UTC
So, tinkering around with the potential of the new Hyperion, I've gotten it up to 142K EHP, or 125K with 80% resists across the board, dual prop, all while doing 1206 DPS (3% hardwirings). Completely ignoring the armour repair bonus of course Big smile

Could stick rails on it instead, but that's far too, Caldari.

I for one, will miss the utility of the Megathron as it was over the last 10 years (still think it needs to be 75/125 drones like the Kronos, or 100/100) but at least with the low slot change it means the Navy Megathron has to keep the extra highslot.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#1770 - 2013-04-13 13:18:06 UTC
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
ExAstra wrote:

Just going to throw my two cents in here and say that this DOES look like a good idea. Although I'm a bit concerned about the cap draw of a dual rep 8 turret Hyperion.

Fleet ships realy dont need high utility slot. So Mega wuth 7-4-8 very cool.

Sorry, post edited. I was more referring to swapping the roles of Hyperion and Megathron to Attack and Combat, respectively, and didn't pay much attention to all the extra changes proposed in the post.

Save the drones!
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1771 - 2013-04-13 13:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Julius Foederatus
The RoF bonus only gives you between 6 and 7% more gun dps over the damage bonus, and you've already lost your utility from before, and you'll probably have to make up the drone dps with the third mag stab, so you're not even sporting a better tank. Not to mention you'll be much more cap hungry which causes more headaches in longer fights.

I get that some people like this for rails, but frankly 6-7% more gun dps (concededly more with the 3rd mag stab, but then you're sporting a lackluster tank in comparison to a Rokh or an Abaddon, so is it really worth it?) is not worth nerfing the ship for low sec users and anyone who wants to fly blasters.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#1772 - 2013-04-13 13:47:03 UTC
Where is is the Electronic Warfare Bonus on the Dominix like on the scorpion or armageddon ?? !!!Roll

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
#1773 - 2013-04-13 13:55:51 UTC
Railed wrote:
Broxus Maximas wrote:


Megathron:


Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+5% Falloff and Optimal range

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M(+1), 7L; 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 600 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 152(+37) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)




I support this ship!



Keep the tracking bonus. Let the Rokh have the range bonus.
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#1774 - 2013-04-13 14:03:23 UTC
OK I'm not very happy with the Hyperion I suggested in retrospect. I think the original CCP proposal for the Hyperion might have been OK if they added a bonus to armour rep capacitor use (in addition to repair amount) so that you could run two reps with a single injector.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1775 - 2013-04-13 14:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
Dear Fozzie and Rise,

I think you've made a mistake with your thought process on the Dominix.

CCP Rise, you said earlier on you expect the Domi to continue to use Hybrids despite losing the turret bonus. You are incorrect as you've forgotten the golden rule of fitting turret based ships:

If the ship doesn't have a racial turret bonus = fit projectiles.

Ergo, just like the Myrm is very frequently seen with projectiles over hybrids, the same will happen to the Domi.


I also seriously urge you to reconsider your choice to make it into a dedicated drone boat as it goes against all the previous designs for Tech 1 ships being more general use ships, and treads very heavily on the toes of the Tech 2 design, which calls for more specialisation.


I also think you're nerfing the drone use of the megathron too harshly, it should keep 125mbit bandwidth and 125m3 bay, drones ARE other Gallente weapons after all. The other changes to the Gal lineup are pretty aces though Smile
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1776 - 2013-04-13 14:18:39 UTC
Johnny Aideron wrote:
OK I'm not very happy with the Hyperion I suggested in retrospect. I think the original CCP proposal for the Hyperion might have been OK if they added a bonus to armour rep capacitor use (in addition to repair amount) so that you could run two reps with a single injector.


I personally feel that all active tanking bonuses should come with a 4% or 5% reduction in cap consumption of armor/shield reppers per level.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1777 - 2013-04-13 14:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Rukhsana Uxor wrote:
Throktar wrote:
Megathron Loses a high, loses ehp, loses 50m3 of drone bandwidth and bay, in exchange for 7 ms a sec, and the ROF bonus change. I know it gets another low, but if you lose 2 heavy drones, you have to make your new low a mag stab just to even out with the same dps you just lost. This just doesn't get me excited at all. At the minimum can we have 25m3 of drone bw and bay back please?

CCP Rise, I really liked that 5th mid slot you added, I just wish you would have left that and given the utility high back to make it a 7/5/7 fit with minimum 100m3 drone bw and bay.


If I am wrong about any of this please respectfully point it out and tell me why.

RoF bonus better than damage bonus, you know it right? DPS will not change a lot but we will have extra low for tank\TE\Magstab or ECCM.

With new layouts Mega is good fleet ship. Dont ruin it :)
Yes, but (arguments about 'fleet' rail fits aside) ROF bonus, while losing 2 heavy drones results in a net decrease, which is what Throktar (above) was discussing.

Ion II's, 2 mag stab, + 5 Ogre II's = 1230 DPS (now, with damage bonus)
Ion II's, 2 mag stab, + 3 Ogre II's = 1164 DPS (future, with ROF bonus)

Just out of interest, putting the drone bay back to 125/125 would put that up to 1291.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1778 - 2013-04-13 14:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Askulf Joringer
Gabriel Karade wrote:

Yes, but (arguments about 'fleet' rail fits aside) ROF bonus, while losing 2 heavy drones results in a net decrease, which is what Throktar (above) was discussing.

Ion II's, 2 mag stab, + 5 Ogre II's = 1230 DPS (now, with damage bonus)
Ion II's, 2 mag stab, + 3 Ogre II's = 1164 DPS (future, with ROF bonus)

Just out of interest, putting the drone bay back to 125/125 would put that up to 1291.


Now look at it with 3x mag stabs on the "future" version of the ship. Or look at the extra tank you get by another plate or hardener. The "megathron nerf" is hardly a nerf at all.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1779 - 2013-04-13 14:55:30 UTC
Mate, learn to quote properly...

a) you've snipped all the bits from the other two posters.
b) you've mis-quoted me.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1780 - 2013-04-13 14:57:58 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Mate, learn to quote properly...

a) you've snipped all the bits from the other two posters.
b) you've mis-quoted me.


missed a "[/quote]" All should be better now