EVE General Discussion

Considering the publicity, the people getting killed all around them, the spam in local and the fact this is only happening in a handfull of systems in gal space and a shockingly large number of people have lost more than one ship I have to say yes. Those miners are the hight of stupid.

He's not joking about this. When the interdiction started I used to get daily threats from pubbies about reporting me for shooting them in high sec.

Calling this for the bullshit it is. And if you were'nt such a new char to eve-O you'd know that this has been repeatedly refuted with several examples.

Even the BEST and SMARTEST miner can be ganked. The only variables needed are TIME and QUANTITY.

So since im such a clueless noob and all my arguments are bullshit why dont you enlighten me?


So every profession in EVE should have risk involved except mining? Is that what you are saying?
Missioners can loose ships to if scrambled by a rat or some other mishap.
Should missions ships be invulnerable so they dont risk loosing them and start mass unsubs?

For some people, ganking is fun, though I admit it's never been my thing. I know, I'm a terrible Goon (though not a proper Goon, so I suppose that makes me... nevermind,) but I've always supported that the mechanic exist in game, just like I've supported scams but have never run them.

To run with your point on dead Hulks, if you own a Hulk, you've probably been training for several weeks (roughly 100 days or more depending on dedication to skill plans and such,) which means you should not be a newbie anymore. Again, you've been in game for over three months, so you're not a newbie anymore... not to the game as a whole. If you've been mining for the whole time, you've probably seen other people lose a ship or caught the chat in local after it happens. In 100 days you will have been expodes to the fact that High Sec is not safe, it's just safer. Like I mentioned a page (or maybe two back now,) CCP includes a tutorial that forces you to lose a ship. It's one of the combat tutorials, but it's still there.

EVE is not a friendly place, most of the people in game want to murder you and the ones that don't are either lying or just trying to find a way to scam you out of everything you own. CCP has intervened on things before, like being able to shoot gang / fleet members without CONCORD jumping in, but in that case, that was an abuse of game mechanics. It was also preventing people from asking others for help or grouping up with strangers and you'll notice, people still have issues fleeting up with strangeers. Ganking is a part of EVE and as long as the ship used to commit this act of violence is destroyed, it's not an exploit and not something CCP should mess with. Sure, I'm on board if they want to yank insurance, but that won't stop a lot of people since it's easy to make isk to cover those losses and in our case, the alliance pays out bounties (used as an example) on destroyed ice miners, so Goons will still be in business.

Honestly, the best advise I could give to someone that wants to mine and be safe... join a decent nullsec alliance and move out of empire. I've mined (I'm not afraid to admit it) in High, Low and Nullsec and mining in Nullsec was probably the safest I've been when it came to mining. The best belts need to be scanned down, which means the reds and neutrals need probes to find you and that gives you extra time to warp to a POS and safe up before they find you and make veldspar dust out of you.

I know, it's a lot of words...

Lol. Been down this road too.

A missioner recieves a far higher reward for his endeavours and his risk is proportionate. Regardless, you're talking about an PvE kill versus PvP.

And for the record, I've even said we should remove Concord protection in mission space to balance the risk better.

The risk v reward quotient is way out of proportion for miners unless 1) insurance is beefed for mining vessels or 2) the tank is made good enough to withstand all but (uninsured) massive alpha strike (evens up the losses proportionally) or 3) miners are given greater reward for their efforts.

A WH or 0.0 miner SHOULD NOT ever complain about losses - but he runs the risk because he can pull MUCH higher rewards for the risk.

A 3m/hr Veld digger affords no such luxury. It's the imbalance in risk v reward that is questionable. We need to either reduce the risk or make the reward commensurate to the risk.

Nothing more and nothing less. Preventing ganking is ONE option. There MUST be others.

One thing for sure, I'm not STUCK in mindset on this. Never have been.

Nonetheless, forums are meant for discussing stuff not just reposting everyone else memes and dare to call it an intelligent debate.

Personally, having done my fair share of mining, 0.0 boredom, missions, market PvP, etc, etc, I have no issue with the ganking or whatever. It is EVE, and should never change. It is part of the game's attraction for many of us who play.

My only issue is, and always has been, that those who get Concorded still get insurance payments. Still the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

As perverse as it is for me to agree with a Goon this is perfectly true and may well prove to a consequence of continued highssec ganking. Better the known enemy.

But it may cause issues for Eve as a whole because to mine for Alliance X and sell to Alliance Y could well be seen as treason.

There may be alliance embargoes about selling rocks on the open market, in addition to alliances themselves putting the squeeze on miners profits through ridiculous refining percentages.

This will become a very serious inflation issue if the rumour about Drone mineral drops are also true.

Poor miners? How are they poor? Cut the crap man seriously.
And 3m/h might apply for starter characters that are a couple week old. Miners sit on their fat asses doing nothing and earn isk while watching a movie, reading a book or whatever they do. And just by paying just a tiny bit of attention they dont risk anything.
Rewards in highsec are already to high vs risk. Highsec should be nerfed not buffed.

But as many have said, yes doing minor changes to, for example insurance (cutting it in half if you are killed by Concord), is something that most players can accept.
Making miners immune to game mechanics is not something people will accept.
Deal with it, accept it, adapt or move on to another game. Period.

I think Apostle is cool too, regardless of the debate we just had. He sounds like the sort of person I can talk to while mining.