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[Odyssey] Large Energy Turrets

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Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#81 - 2013-04-12 21:31:44 UTC
woohoo!

anything will help. is it balanced? no. anyone who flyes amarr knows u cannot fit a complete rack of tachyons on a bs (without mods.)
things are getting a lil betta..

but the cap savings will help. not much, but some.

the weapons are just WAY ot of wack.



CRYSTALS!
that crystal change that was posted (i have replied too) is bad ass!
it still stays within the em/thermal of amarr, but allows us to change frequencies to either heat things up, or give them a sun burn.

they need some more damage. not alot. but right now, 7 tachs without heat sinks will do like 172 dps with radio.


and whats with the tracking bonus? isnt it enough they break? missiles lost their penalty to speed...
so that leads me to ask..what actually aims the beam? the crystal or the laser?
THE LASER! the crystal focuses the laser for range and damage, but has nothing to do with tracking. thats a product of the laser turret.
get rid of the stupid tracking penalty on light.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#82 - 2013-04-12 21:56:56 UTC
Is there any chance we get the new Crystals with the new damage type, like Kin?
Or at least get crystals with pure Therm damage?

Whatever.
Rina Kondur
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#83 - 2013-04-12 21:59:20 UTC
I'm hoping Crystals can be looked at. As it stands now, lasers are very much a T2 or GTFO weapon platform. Meta lasers are just not a viable option as the damage scales horribly with range. Without your Scorch, you may as well not even use lasers.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#84 - 2013-04-12 21:59:47 UTC
Regolis wrote:
I'm sorry ... let me try that again with those side by side so you can see them

65 GJ vs 21 GJ with close to the same stats besides tracking ...
3250 grid vs 2200 grid would be 50% of the fitting of the 2200 to get to 3250 ...

Maybe your amarr ships have infinite CPU, but that's not the case on gallente ships. Fitting constraint on railguns is CPU, but PG hurt too. Didn't you realized amarr ships had sometimes twice the PG of other ships ? Also, amarr ships have a *lot* more cap than other ships.

As for the other advantages, beams do the same damage, if not more, than railguns, when actually fitted on the hulls, at close range, but with a lot more tracking.

Also, near infinite, instant swaping ammo. That's why the cap cost.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-04-12 22:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
First, thanks for taking a look at energy weapons, it is really appreciated.
But while you are at it, could you spare just a little time to take another look at Dual Heavy Beam Lasers and Quad Beam Lasers? Although they are by far the best looking lasers in game, they hardly get used and don't seem to fill any viable role in this game at all.
Or maybe I am just stupid and they have a role that I am not aware of - in this case I would be happy if you could tell me how they are supposed to be used.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Edward Pierce
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-04-12 22:06:45 UTC
What about them Railguns...
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#87 - 2013-04-12 22:21:26 UTC
At the same time will you plz consider giving railguns and beams a better alpha please (not more dps). Just a little - the gap between railguns and beams vs artillery is huge and you can easily buff beams and rails without compromising the artillery advantage...

Anyway good to see you're looking into things. :-)

Pinky
Naso Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2013-04-12 22:24:30 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
At the same time will you plz consider giving railguns and beams a better alpha please (not more dps). Just a little - the gap between railguns and beams vs artillery is huge and you can easily buff beams and rails without compromising the artillery advantage...

Anyway good to see you're looking into things. :-)

Pinky


Pretty sure that's the whole goal behind artillery. The adjustments should make Tachyons only 1-2% high on the pwg for the Abaddon, which'll be interesting.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-04-12 22:39:16 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Naso Aya wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Also i'm quite sure an Apoc with scorch will still outdps an apoc with tachs at 70 km.. =/ (WHILE being able to fit things like a tank)



Seriously though.. Small and medium beams.. i want some =<



With Scorch, yes, but the strength of an Apoc with Tachs doesn't come from being able to hit things at 70km, it comes from being able to (with the bonus, and aurora) hit things at over 150 km away.


Not while having a tank..

Is it unreasonable to want long range weapons to out dps short range weapons at their complete range limit?

if you can only hit something at 150k on an Aurora/Tach Apoc, you done already screwed up, that should be MUCH closer to 250k (which means your still sniping at them while they wait for that MJD to recycle... )

As for these changes, CCP Rise, CCP Fozzie, I will respectfully (though perhaps only temporarily) stop pushing my 'Abaddon needs more work' posts on the Amarr BS thread until we can access them for testing on Sisi (btw, I DO want an area I can test it in L4 missions at, never really used Sisi before so I don't know if this is currently an option, yes, I know there will be plenty of pvp testing available though, and I do look forward to that as well :D)
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2013-04-12 22:53:45 UTC
For anyone who wishes this change was more exhaustive - part of what was nice about this solution is that it doesn't disrupt any future efforts to look at energy weapons as a whole. That said, the near near future does not contain such a rework, so any suggestions about crystals or other large problems related to the weapon probably won't have a huge effect on our plans for Odyssey.

Hope that for now this makes life a bit more comfortable until we do have the time to come back and look at the whole thing.

@ccp_rise
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#91 - 2013-04-12 22:58:58 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
For anyone who wishes this change was more exhaustive - part of what was nice about this solution is that it doesn't disrupt any future efforts to look at energy weapons as a whole. That said, the near near future does not contain such a rework, so any suggestions about crystals or other large problems related to the weapon probably won't have a huge effect on our plans for Odyssey.

Hope that for now this makes life a bit more comfortable until we do have the time to come back and look at the whole thing.


Simple:

We're not changing anything but what we posted in the initial post. That's all we have time for. We'll look at the rest later. We'll test whether 15% should be 14% when it hits sisi.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2013-04-12 23:06:54 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
For anyone who wishes this change was more exhaustive - part of what was nice about this solution is that it doesn't disrupt any future efforts to look at energy weapons as a whole. That said, the near near future does not contain such a rework, so any suggestions about crystals or other large problems related to the weapon probably won't have a huge effect on our plans for Odyssey.

Hope that for now this makes life a bit more comfortable until we do have the time to come back and look at the whole thing.


Well I just started a thread here about crystals.

Would love your or Fozzie's thoughts on a change like that? Which I blatantly copied off multiple people just fleshed out a bit more.

Is there any discussion of a module teircide initiative in the future? At the very least for weapon systems? Not just lasers.

For example having some guns in each system be better at tracking vs damage vs range vs alpha?



And I still strongly believe that it is ridiculous that the Oracle can fit Tach IIs no problem and still no T1 BS can fit them without using a fitting mod or rig...
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#93 - 2013-04-12 23:13:03 UTC
Good start but after crunching some quick numbers could use a little more love but still good start Big smile

Oderint Dum Metuant
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#94 - 2013-04-12 23:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
CCP Rise wrote:
For anyone who wishes this change was more exhaustive - part of what was nice about this solution is that it doesn't disrupt any future efforts to look at energy weapons as a whole. That said, the near near future does not contain such a rework, so any suggestions about crystals or other large problems related to the weapon probably won't have a huge effect on our plans for Odyssey.

Hope that for now this makes life a bit more comfortable until we do have the time to come back and look at the whole thing.



So you might nerf amarr's crutch that is scorch at some point?

Because i think scorch really skews all efforts at balance work.


Amarr can't be truly balanced while that one crystal keeps making its ships look better than they really are.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#95 - 2013-04-12 23:41:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Such an exciting week here on features and ideas!

I siggest you stop taking these pills. Overdose may kill you, and likely sooner, than later.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Liarali
W-Space IT Department
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#96 - 2013-04-12 23:45:45 UTC
While you're looking at the large weapon systems.. maybe remove the requirement to train small/med to 5 to use large T2 weapons? This would fit nicely with your modifications to the requirements of battleships in favor of specialisation.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-04-12 23:46:34 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
For anyone who wishes this change was more exhaustive - part of what was nice about this solution is that it doesn't disrupt any future efforts to look at energy weapons as a whole. That said, the near near future does not contain such a rework, so any suggestions about crystals or other large problems related to the weapon probably won't have a huge effect on our plans for Odyssey.

Hope that for now this makes life a bit more comfortable until we do have the time to come back and look at the whole thing.



So you might nerf amarr's crutch that is scorch at some point?

Because i think scorch really skews all efforts at balance work.


Amarr can't be truly balanced while that one crystal keeps making its ships look better than they really are.

Please, this is not the "Bash Amarr" thread.
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-04-13 00:27:50 UTC
I suppose a question we should ask Rise and Fozzie, is do they intend the Apoc, Abaddon, and Arma, to be pulse platforms.

Maybe thats why they refuse to let us fit T2 tachs with max skills. As has been shown already even with the update to tachs, they take more powergrid than the apoc has with nothing else fitted! Maybe the devs are just trying to tell us "No! don't put tachs on amarr battleships!".

If this is the devs position, it would help us a lot if they would just come out and SAY IT!

If the devs intend that the ONLY ships that should use tachs are the nightmare and oracle, then just tell us.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-04-13 00:46:30 UTC
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
I suppose a question we should ask Rise and Fozzie, is do they intend the Apoc, Abaddon, and Arma, to be pulse platforms.

Maybe thats why they refuse to let us fit T2 tachs with max skills. As has been shown already even with the update to tachs, they take more powergrid than the apoc has with nothing else fitted! Maybe the devs are just trying to tell us "No! don't put tachs on amarr battleships!".

If this is the devs position, it would help us a lot if they would just come out and SAY IT!

If the devs intend that the ONLY ships that should use tachs are the nightmare and oracle, then just tell us.

You forgot the Bhaal and the Paladin :P
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2013-04-13 00:48:47 UTC
But yes, it is VERY dissapointing that the only tech 1 hull of the entire Amarr line that can fit Tachs and still be able to use it's other slots without first immediately throwing on things to grant it more PG is the Oracle. Am I missing something, or is the only ship we're meant to try and snipe with and not otherwise gimp the fitting options for this hull?